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UmmMohammed
06-Sep-2009, 09:44 PM
First of all I am not sure if this has been bought up before and im sure it will raise different reactions in people but I felt as I learnt this information today I would share it with the intention of informing fellow muslims so they can make an educated decision on immunisation. As a mother of one with another due to arrive Janurary next year I was really upset and felt extreemly betrayed by the health care providers that I had previously spoken to before having my son vaccinated. The only concern I left with was maybe he will have a slight reaction and there is a link (although not proven) between the MMR vaccine and autism... After thinking it through I came to the conclusion that the risks far outweighed the dangers and had my son who is now two vaccinated. Only today I was sent a link about abortion and how some of these are performed (eg; higly concentrated salt solution injected into ammniotic fluid fetus swallows and dies but not before its skin is burnt off or a live abortion where the fetus has past 24 weeks gestation and has a great chance of survival if born is pulled by its legs out of the birth canal leaving the head inside then a sharp instrument is inserted into the base of the brain where it is then sucked out) I apologise for the graphic nature of what im saying but this is happening and there is a great market for all this fetal anatomy for scientific research, helping treat parkinsons disease (this is only the brain of the fetus that is used after live abortion) and to my shock Vaccines!!! When I read that, I was gravely upset that I had injected my son with the cells/tissue of another child who's life was taken away from them!!!

As I spoke to a fellow sister who chose not to vaccinate her son she let me know the reason she chose not to was that there is animal tissue also used in these including pig and dog!!! Now this information is available on the net and I understand that it is everyones choice to make. I am not posting this to recieve a big backlash as I see it as I am only doing my duty to you all in informing you. I am posting a link to the ingreadients of common vaccines used in Australia. You may also get this information from your gp inshaAllah but just so you know the info from your dr may have the fetal cell lines listed as MRC-5, WI-38, PER C6, VA4, RA273 & HEK-293...

http://www.vaccination.inoz.com/ingredie.html

I appreciate you reading troughh this and ask please if anyone has anything negative t say then please provide evidence/info and be mature about this any personal attacks will be ignored... May Allah SWT guide us all to what is right and correct Ameen...

Adelaidean
06-Sep-2009, 10:10 PM
Inshallah, i will not accept another vaccine.
They are trying to make vaccination mandatory in parts of America at the moment.
The regime in the US atm, is much more fullon, domestically, as Obama has a huge commie following, and he says things to flatter muslims, and other groups.

Explorer
06-Sep-2009, 10:19 PM
sis, i have a bad feeling about this thread LOL

as you know I don;t immunise my children, but this was after months of research.

And as I've said before, I was forced into immunising my first son, and he (clinically) died in my arms from meningitis. His heart stopped. The doctors buzzed him with that clear! machine and Allah in all his might started his heart again.
I hope nobody ever has to go through that feeling.

There is no immunisation against Qadr Allah, alhumdulillah.

There are some obvious benefits to immunisation, but just remember that a child immunised against a certain thing can still get it and die from it.

My second son has not been immunised at all except the vitamin k injection at birth.
He did get sick with some sort of gastro strain and the nurses at the hospital gave me this massive guilt trip about how he would not have got sick if I had done the proper thing and had him immunised because apparently that particular strain is included in early immunisations. Alhumdulillah he was fine after 2 nights on a drip.
And mashAllah apart from his physical birth defects which are still being corrected, he is such a strong little boy, AllahuAkbar.

It's importamt that any parent makes an informed decision without just saying we rely on Allah, because Allah has made these options available to us and we can make a choice about anything we choose to do.

Mine was no to immunisations, I know others don;t agree but they are free to make their own choice, too.

UmmMohammed
06-Sep-2009, 10:26 PM
As I said sis Explorer I felt I could not keep this info to myself and if people feel they need to attck me for trying to do the right thing then may Allah guide them and forgive them... I'm not getting on a pedastool demanding that people should reject immunisation just asking them to make informed decisions inshaAllah.. And I have pretty tough skin so im not worried too much ;)

Explorer
06-Sep-2009, 10:27 PM
LOL i know man!
I'm with u on this one!

It's just usually we get attacked for rejecting immunisation!

saif
06-Sep-2009, 10:41 PM
Whenever I ask whether animal products are in the vaccines, the people dispensing them never seem to be able to answer my questions.

I rejected vitamin K for my newborns after doing research and finding out that it contains animal products - and the odds of a child bleeding to death due to lack of vitamin K are negligible anyway.

I think what will disturb a lot of muslims is this:

Ingredients of vaccines include:
gelatin (or gelatine, obtained from selected pieces of calf and cattle skins, de-mineralized cattle bones and pork skin) are in several vaccines.

Ariel
07-Sep-2009, 12:07 AM
This is such a difficult decision to make... It's very scary because we really don't know what is in the immunisations!!!! May Allah swt ptotect out children and allow us the ability to do what is in their best interest. Thanks for sharing this information.

SuBMiSSioN
07-Sep-2009, 07:10 AM
What do the mashayekh have to say about using immunisations that have ingredients in them that may be haram?

UmmMohammed
07-Sep-2009, 09:20 AM
What do the mashayekh have to say about using immunisations that have ingredients in them that may be haram?

im not sure but if they had access to this information it would be obvious that the ruling would be against as we are not allowed to ingest gelatine (derived from pork) so why would we be allowed to inject our babies with pigs blood??? And we rare not allowed to kill our unborn so why would we be allowed to inject our babies with that either?? most of the viruses we are advised to immunise against are non existent in this country so what do we go inject our kids with those viruses to protect ourselfs against it??? sounds a bit odd to me?? Maybe someone can send a questions to islam Q & A with this info and get an official islamic ruling???

SuBMiSSioN
07-Sep-2009, 12:31 PM
Not all gelatine comes from pork. Also, some people follow a different ruling to gelatine, but I'm not sure if that ruling falls under this same sort of category.

There are some people who immunise their children, from a to z. I'd like to know what the ruling is for those who believe it to be necessary to inject their children as not everyone follows the opinion that we shouldn't immunise our children. We shouldn't make something haram upon people without having first consulted those of knowledge.

El Muslima
07-Sep-2009, 12:52 PM
The medical staff at hospital normally hassles you about the routine immunisation after childbirth. I forgot to enquire about these things with my first & second child due to the difficult delivery but with my 3rd child, Alhamdulillah, Allah made it a breeze that we had time to check about the immunisations. We had the pediatrician coming to explain & show us the names of ingredients of the products in the vaccines. It was mainly Sciientific names ..but after a bit of research the pediatrician agreed that Vitamin K vaccine contains animal products but hepatitis jab just synthetic.

With subsequent children, they still hassled me with these immunisations - the baby doctors will come & try & make yoiu feel guilty- I also refused Vit. D supplement for my newborns .

As for MMR, from my recent Vaccine visit, I was told they don't use that anymore. It has been replaced with Priorix .

If I knew that the vaccination contains haram things , I would not have my children immunised. They were immunised based on the information that I have , that it was ok.

SuBMiSSioN
07-Sep-2009, 01:19 PM
El Muslima: Can I ask why you refused the Vit. D supplement for your newborns? I'm just curious that's all :) Have you had their levels checked recently to see if they're still deficient?

El Muslima
07-Sep-2009, 02:53 PM
Submission : No, My bubs were never tested for Vit D deficiency . They were just recommending it to babies whose mothers had deficiency. I had slight deficiency & after taking Vit D supplements , I was told that my levels were ok (during pregnancy) . I never gave supplements to my other kids so I see no reason why I need to do that now.

Saful Islam
07-Sep-2009, 11:07 PM
now where to find halal immunisation :(

Adelaidean
07-Sep-2009, 11:26 PM
now where to find halal immunisation :(

Organic foods + rain water/non-brain cancer water.
The immune system, is wrongly named, it is supposed to be called our defense system, and by being healthy, drinking lots of water, you can make your defense system really awesomee, without injecting yourself with crazy jew vaccines.

littleMother
07-Sep-2009, 11:47 PM
and breastfeed your babies for as long as possible! one of the best ways to keep your babies safe against sickness, alhamdulillah!

Ahmad
07-Sep-2009, 11:51 PM
and breastfeed your babies for as long as possible! one of the best ways to keep your babies safe against sickness, alhamdulillah!
for 2 years anyway

"The mothers shall give suck to their children for two whole years, (that is) for those (parents) who desire to complete the term of suckling..." 2:233

littleMother
07-Sep-2009, 11:52 PM
yes true, but there is nothing wrong with going over 2 years also (if you want to).

hope&aspiration
07-Sep-2009, 11:54 PM
hhhmmmmm ok but personaly it doesn't look normal when th child is walking and taking it ... ok thats just my own opinon.

Ahmad
07-Sep-2009, 11:55 PM
hhhmmmmm ok but personaly it doesn't look normal when th child is walking and taking it ... ok thats just my own opinon.

lots of things in Islam are strange compared to "modern" society, such as women covering and guys growing beards, but it is better for us, alhamdulillah

hope&aspiration
07-Sep-2009, 11:59 PM
lots of things in Islam are strange compared to "modern" society, such as women covering and guys growing beards, but it is better for us, alhamdulillah

alhamdulillah i'll take that, jazakAllahu kahiran

Saful Islam
11-Sep-2009, 03:06 AM
i recently heard from some brother that if u dont have vaccine records your child wont get addmitted in school...is that correct?

Adelaidean
11-Sep-2009, 03:17 AM
i recently heard from some brother that if u dont have vaccine records your child wont get addmitted in school...is that correct?

That's what they want to have as legislation.

I am opposed to state mandatory education system.
HOwever i am 100% for education.
I guess i am just against the growing(and already massive) role the state plays in Australia(and the rest of the world).
but at the same time, governments can be used for so much good....

Umm Binyameen
11-Sep-2009, 03:28 AM
i recently heard from some brother that if u dont have vaccine records your child wont get addmitted in school...is that correct?

No apparently its not. I had conversation with Aussiemu about this recently. I'll get her to respond to you insha'Allah

UmmRashid
11-Sep-2009, 05:47 AM
My son has not been fully immunised and he is at school. It was funny as they tried to tell me that my daughter couldnt attend school because she wasnt fully immunised, and its the same school hehe When you know your rights and you're firm they back off, and in the end they had to get the admin manager to discuss it with me and she just told me that I had to get permission from centrelink, when I explained that I already had, and that her immunisation record said "up to date" despite the fact she hadnt received all her immunisations they backed off.

Basically you need to have your immunisation status up to date with centrelink, which means either they have all immunisations, or you sign a concientious objector form. And at that point, as far as I'm aware, if theres an outbreak they have the right to ask your child, who has not received the immunisation for whatever the oubreak is, to stay home. Mind you my son never received the chicken pox vaccination, and there was chicken pox there, and nobody ever said anything.

saif
11-Sep-2009, 11:39 AM
I am not sure about school, but you can register yourself as a conscientious objector and therefore qualify for the government immunisation handout. Perhaps school registration works the same way.

UmmRashid
11-Sep-2009, 11:59 AM
Yeah it does. You just need to sign a form, and get your GP to sign it, and they send it off. GP's should have the form, but best to go in prepared in case they dont, its available online, i think from the family assistance office. Otherwise ring them in advance to confirm they have the forms. Oh and be prepared for a lecture from the GP ;) They pretty much have to give you one when signing the forum.

aussiemu
11-Sep-2009, 12:20 PM
hope&aspiration there are kids that walk and talk before 1 and most do both well before 2.

mumof4bubs!
11-Sep-2009, 12:36 PM
My son has not been fully immunised and he is at school. It was funny as they tried to tell me that my daughter couldnt attend school because she wasnt fully immunised, and its the same school hehe When you know your rights and you're firm they back off, and in the end they had to get the admin manager to discuss it with me and she just told me that I had to get permission from centrelink, when I explained that I already had, and that her immunisation record said "up to date" despite the fact she hadnt received all her immunisations they backed off.

Basically you need to have your immunisation status up to date with centrelink, which means either they have all immunisations, or you sign a concientious objector form. And at that point, as far as I'm aware, if theres an outbreak they have the right to ask your child, who has not received the immunisation for whatever the oubreak is, to stay home. Mind you my son never received the chicken pox vaccination, and there was chicken pox there, and nobody ever said anything.

sub7an Allah! that's exactly what happened to me when I went to enroll my girls at school! but I was quite firm with them, I told them that It was a personal choice that I made, then they back off! lol

*saRah*
11-Sep-2009, 12:38 PM
interesting topic, it kinda confuses people of what they should do.

hope&aspiration
11-Sep-2009, 12:47 PM
hope&aspiration there are kids that walk and talk before 1 and most do both well before 2.

aussiemu i have 9 brothers and sisters and i work within childrens services so i'm well aware that they do, but what i meant was when they can talk as in ask for it ( and this leads to them asking for it in public places and again not saying that all children do) then personaly i don't like it and it's not for me (i don't have children and Allahu 3alem if my views will change after i do) but i did not mean that people shouldn't or don't do it nor am i judging people that do. i'm sure my mum breastfeed more then one of us over the age of 2 :) sorry i'f i offended anyone.

Explorer
11-Sep-2009, 01:51 PM
^no I get what you're saying. I remember my younger brother was speaking very well and still breastfeeding and the truth is, looking from a nutritional point of view, it's not any benefit at that age like it is at the start.
Scientists have tried to manafacture colostrum (which the baby drinks before the milk comes out) and they are unable to do it subhanAllah it's only able to be produced through the mother.
But when a child is eating 3 meals a day, able to drink water and cows milk, juice and other fluids, it's not important to keep going after 2 years.
Scientific tests have showed that after 6 months the child's breastfeeding offers no more nutritional value than a child having formula. But obviously it's better to keep going.

The first few days are the most important as the child gets most of the antibodies that they need from the colostrum.
After that, breastmilk is an excellent way of feeding the child as it feeds their hunger and quenches their thirst and its FREE!!!!

UmmRashid
11-Sep-2009, 02:01 PM
Explorer: what studies show that after 6 months breastmilk is no more nutritional than formula?? everything I have come accross says after 2 years of age, not 6 months. Dont forget its not only about nutritional value, its also immunity and benefits in terms of intelligence etc. There is no substitute for a mothers milk.

Explorer
11-Sep-2009, 02:13 PM
Wat I mean is after 6 months the child can get the same nutritional values from formula.
Except the hydration, they will need extra water.
Before 6 months there's no comparison at all.

Explorer
11-Sep-2009, 02:15 PM
Don't forget some mothers are dry and I'm sure their kids don't turn out dumber than others.

I once read this study that said University students that were breastfed got higher results than those on formula, and I understand that they're trying to encourage breastfeeding but that also can send a dry mother into depression from guilt.

Adelaidean
11-Sep-2009, 02:21 PM
Don't forget some mothers are dry and I'm sure their kids don't turn out dumber than others.

I once read this study that said University students that were breastfed got higher results than those on formula, and I understand that they're trying to encourage breastfeeding but that also can send a dry mother into depression from guilt.

diet plays a huge role in the development of bones, bodies and intelligence.

UmmRashid
11-Sep-2009, 02:27 PM
I dont agree that after 6 months breastmilk and formula are the same.

And of course some ppl can be breastfed and not be the brightest spark, no research says if x happens then 100% y will happen. Its more about increasing chances.

As for milk drying up...that is often due to a lack of information, there are many things that a woman can do to prevent her milk from drying up. There is really very few women who have a physical issue preventing her from feeding. Most women have problems, some more difficult to overcome than others, but with good advice and effort they can be overcome. Of course not everybody is in a position to either receive good advice or to put in a lot of effort.

I know breastfeeding is a sensitive issue that raises guilt issues. But i dont see that as a reason to deny the benefits. If a women doesnt breastfeed due to whatever reason, whether it be she is physically unable to, she hasnt gotten good advice, her circumstances are such that she does not have the time to put in the effort required (and believe me it can be very time consuming!!) then she knows within herself what her reasons are, and she has no reason to feel guilty.

But at the same time we should encourage everybody to give it a go, provide advice and support women who are struggling. It is what is best for our children and the benefits are enermous!

UmmRasheed
11-Sep-2009, 02:37 PM
I use to be anti immunisation until I went to a third world country and have seen polio, typhiod, ect and its effects. If its available, tie your camel and leave rest with Allah aza wa jel.

As for the ingredients, I have read them, they are cultured off different things, some animal blood cells, some eggs, ect. There are some immunisations that are based on pig products...I have not used these ones and have used alternative. Also, there are some 'live virus' vaccines which contain the virus such as the TB one...I have only heard of ONE case where there has been a reaction and this could have been the circumstances rather than the actual vaccine.

If a family makes a choice its their choice to make and NO one has the right to tell them they are wrong.

Do your research and make your decision.

Adelaidean
11-Sep-2009, 02:53 PM
Not all vaccines are bad.**

SuBMiSSioN
11-Sep-2009, 02:58 PM
So which vaccinations are people ok giving their child, and which ones are they not happy with and why?

Ahmad
11-Sep-2009, 03:04 PM
and breastfeed your babies for as long as possible! one of the best ways to keep your babies safe against sickness, alhamdulillah!


But when a child is eating 3 meals a day, able to drink water and cows milk, juice and other fluids, it's not important to keep going after 2 years.
Scientific tests have showed that after 6 months the child's breastfeeding offers no more nutritional value than a child having formula. But obviously it's better to keep going.

The complete term of suckling (for those who want to complete it) is 2 years as Allaah subhaanahu wa ta'aalaa said:

وَالْوَالِدَاتُ يُرْضِعْنَ أَوْلَادَهُنَّ حَوْلَيْنِ كَامِلَيْنِ ۖ لِمَنْ أَرَادَ أَن يُتِمَّ الرَّضَاعَةَ

"The mothers shall give suck to their children for two whole years, (that is) for those (parents) who desire to complete the term of suckling..." 2:233

And Allah Knows Best.

mujahid al deen
11-Sep-2009, 06:39 PM
I know of a bro that was diognosed with liver cancer and the family was told that he should have been given the immunisations at birth (so the ones given in the first years??) it would have helped protect him againt this type of cancer. but he wasn't born in Australia and the country he was born in didn't offer it and if it did it was hard to get as their was a civil war during that time.
and like the sis said..

[QUOTE=UmmRasheed;365113]..... If its available, tie your camel and leave rest with Allah aza wa jel.QUOTE]

the immunisation option is taken away from may due to living circumstances so please don't treat it like its nothing. In saying that i don't think people should think in less or more of others with they choose not to or too.

May Allah protect us all. AMEEN.

UmmMohammed
11-Sep-2009, 08:42 PM
i just dont understand why people are not addressing the issue of other ingreadients that i mentioned... mainly being parts of aborted fetuses... islam is against abortion and i dont understand how they could use this in vaccinations without regards for peoples feelings in this matter (many people do not know about this ingreadient and would not realise if they were looking at ingreadients as it is put under scientific terms) A page I have read states that women are carrying babies for up to 30 weeks gestation then killing off the fetus's and making money from this... and as i stated the way in which they perform these abortions are horrific!!! It breaks my heart that an innocent child can be murded in such a cruel barbaric fashion!!!!

Lena
11-Sep-2009, 09:09 PM
Is there an Islamic ruling that states immunisation is Haram?

UmmMohammed
11-Sep-2009, 09:28 PM
sis i just found this on q&a

http://www.islam-qa.com/en/ref/2159/abortion

please read and also please look at the very first post as i included a link with a list of ingreadients and also the medical terms used to write these lists without us realising what it is

mujahid al deen
11-Sep-2009, 09:34 PM
ok i was reading up on it and this is what i found concering vaccines and fetus...
The vaccine strain of rubella was derived from a fetus infected with rubella in 1965. The virus was then cultured in a cell line that was taken from fetal tissue.
The reasons for originally using these cells were:
Mature human tissue has cells only capable of dividing a few times before dying whereas fetal cells can continue to divide and be propagated indefinitely.
Rubella is a human disease and requires human cells to replicate. Early attempts to use animal cell lines were unsuccessful.
There has been no further (new) fetal tissue used in the production of Rubella vaccine since the original development of the vaccine in 1965.

so sis i don't think that they still abort the fetus now for the vaccines wa Allahu 3alem.

UmmMohammed
11-Sep-2009, 09:38 PM
inshaAllah i will find the other two websites with proof for you all

UmmMohammed
11-Sep-2009, 09:47 PM
http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Evils%20in%20America/Abortion%20is%20Murder/horror_of_abortion.htm .......... this one is not for the weak hearted


http://www.ncirs.usyd.edu.au/facts/vax_com.pdf ... look at vaccine components

Adelaidean
11-Sep-2009, 09:53 PM
not just what they are made of, but what are the consequences/side-effects?

mujahid al deen
11-Sep-2009, 09:55 PM
^ ture if you have a weak stomach don't look through this site^

also sis becareful not all these sites are trusted and only serve to prove a point they want t make.

cheesegirl
11-Sep-2009, 10:02 PM
:salam:

Okay marwa, I'll give it a shot. :)

From what I understood, the virus in grown in human cells (which is normal in scientific research), and that the virus is harvested from the cells, and the protein they want is purified from the virus. Depending on how pure (free of contamination) they want the protein to be (presumably very pure), it should contain mostly, or only, the protein in question. It is very unlikely there will be much human product left over in it.

The cells they use are derived from a fetus:

normal lung tissue of a 14-week-old male fetus by J. P. Jacobs in September 1966 (Nature 227: 168-170, 1970).

http://www.viromed.com/services/product/mrc5.htm

"The MRC-5 cell line was developed in September 1966 from lung tissue taken from a 14 week fetus aborted for psychiatric reason from a 27 year old physically healthy woman."

http://www.cogforlife.org/mrc-5.htm

Its important to note that the cells used are not the original cells taken from the child, the cells replicate and divide... the cells are derived from the original cells, but are not the cells themselves. They will still have the child's genetic finger print though. Again, its seems unlikely that there will be much human byproducts in the actually vaccine.

With respect to the 'bovine derived materials', this could refer to the fact that cells are usually grown in a solution of nutrients that contains FBS, or fetal bovine serum... which basically means baby cow blood without the blood cells.

Allahu alam... thats just my understanding of the information that was provided in the document.

SuBMiSSioN
11-Sep-2009, 10:04 PM
It's important you get your information from the correct sources. An internet site that provides information about what ingredients that are found in these vaccines should be verified.

I also think it's important to ask a shaykh about this because there will be a few questions that will need to be asked to determine the ruling on these vaccines. How important is it to take these vaccines? What kind of diseases do they protect against? What if it comes down to protecting us against a disease which is deadly? Does it make a difference as to what part of the foetus is actually used?

mujahid al deen
11-Sep-2009, 10:05 PM
so the information i found is along the same line.... jazakiAllau khairan

saif
12-Sep-2009, 08:57 AM
According to this site, most of the vaccines are derived from animal products:
http://www.mja.com.au/public/issues/184_04_200206/eld10500_fm.html

Some of them are made using human cells, monkies, pigs, mice and guinea pigs!


Chicken pox (Varicella)
Varilrix (GSK)
Cow, human, Human cell culture


Varivax — refrigerated (MSD)
Gelatine, cow
Human and guinea pig cell culture


Diphtheria/ tetanus
ADT (CSL); CDT (CSL)
Cow or pig or horse*


Diphtheria/ tetanus/ pertussis
Boostrix (10 years) (GSK); Infanrix (GSK)
Cow


Diphtheria/ tetanus/ pertussis/ hepatitis B
Infanrix Hep B (GSK)
Cow


Diphtheria/ pertussis/ poliomyelitis/ tetanus
Infanrix IPV (GSK)
Cow, Monkey cell culture


Diphtheria/ hepatitis B/ pertussis/ poliomyelitis/ tetanus
Infanrix Penta (GSK)
Cow, monkey cell culture

Diphtheria/ Haemophilus influenzae/ hepatitis B/ pertussis/ poliomyelitis/ tetanus
Infanrix Hexa (GSK)
Cow, monkey cell culture,

Diphtheria toxoid
Diphtheria Vacc (Adsorbed) (CSL); Diphtheria Vacc (Adsorbed) (Adult) (CSL)
Cow or pig or horse*


Hepatitis B
Engerix - B (GSK); Engerix- B (Paediatric) (GSK)
Cow



Influenza
Fluad (Chiron)
Chicken,


Fluarix (GSK)
Cow,


Measles/ mumps/ rubella
M-M-R II (MSD)
Gelatine, cow, Human cell culture, chick embryo cell culture, human serum albumin(made from human blood)


Priorix (GSK)
Cow


Menjugate (CSL)
Cow


NeisVac-C (Baxter)
Cow


Pneumococcal
Pneumovax 23 (MSD)
Rabbit



Poliomyelitis
Ipol (Aventis Pasteur)
Cow
Monkey cell culture


Polio Sabin (GSK)
Cow, Human cell culture

Rubella
Meruvax II (MSD)
Gelatine, cow, Human cell culture, human serum albumin(made from human blood)

Tetanus
Tet-Tox (CSL)
Cow or pig or horse*


Hepatitis A
Avaxim (Aventis Pasteur); Havrix Junior (GSK); Havrix 1440 (GSK); VAQTA Adult (MSD); VAQTA Paediatric/Adolescent (MSD)
Cow, Human cell culture

Hepatitis A and hepatitis B
Twinrix 720/20 (GSK); Twinrix Junior 360/10 (GSK)
Cow, Human cell culture,


Hepatitis A and Salmonella typhi
Vivaxim (Aventis Pasteur)
Cow, Human cell culture


Japanese encephalitis
Je-Vax (Aventis Pasteur)
Gelatin, Live mice


Meningococcal
Menomune (Aventis Pasteur) and Mencevax ACWY (GSK)
Cow


Plague (Yersinia pestis)
Plague Vaccine (CSL)
Cow, pig or horse


Rabies
Mérieux Inactivated Rabies Vaccine (Aventis Pasteur)
Cow, Human cell culture, human serum albumin (made from human blood)


Typhoid (Salmonella typhi)
Typhim VI (Aventis Pasteur); Typherix (GSK)
Cow


Yellow fever
Stamaril (Aventis Pasteur)
Cow

SuBMiSSioN
12-Sep-2009, 12:19 PM
A lot of those diseases these vaccines are meant to protect us from are deadly. Do these vaccines fall under the same category of food? Does it make it haram to take these vaccinations?

I think it's extremely important to put these questions forward to a shaykh.

SuBMiSSioN
12-Sep-2009, 12:26 PM
sis i just found this on q&a

http://www.islam-qa.com/en/ref/2159/abortion

please read and also please look at the very first post as i included a link with a list of ingredients and also the medical terms used to write these lists without us realising what it is
This link talks about using aborted foetuses for financial gain. It doesn't talk about using them to help protect a person against a deadly disease.

cheesegirl
12-Sep-2009, 12:47 PM
According to this site, most of the vaccines are derived from animal products:
http://www.mja.com.au/public/issues/184_04_200206/eld10500_fm.html


Brother there is a difference between a virus being GROWN in cells of human and animal origin and the vaccine containing any human/animal products. The two aren't the same.

Biological growth media means the cells are grown in supplements derived from the animals listed, it doesn't mean the vaccine contains these things.

UmmMohammed
12-Sep-2009, 02:06 PM
This link talks about using aborted foetuses for financial gain. It doesn't talk about using them to help protect a person against a deadly disease.

Yes i know sis and there are big companies out there that pay women to abort their foetus and if the women are in poorer countries tehre are stories that the doctors who work with these companies actually tell the woman that it is either for her own safety that she has to abort the foetus or that there is something wrong with it... there is a news report about a woman who actually worked in a "harvesting" lab that was joined onto the abortion clinic and she witnessed these things, she also testified in court that she would at least twice a week have live foetuses bought to her and the doctor would expect her to finish their lifes or she would not know until she cut them open to harvest organs and their little hearts were still beating!


And I am mostly reffering to the first paragraph "in which some doctors deliberately abort foetuses so that they can profit from selling the foetal organs or cells, from which some kinds of injections may be prepared for the benefit of elderly rich people and others. This is a major crime, because it entails the deliberate murder of innocent souls for financial gain. This is a serious form of wrongdoing and the rulings concerning it are well known and obvious"

It would make sense that we would not be able to use aborted foetuses for our gain... and by us using the injections we are part of this cycle are we not???

umm_mohammed
12-Sep-2009, 03:05 PM
http://www.islam-qa.com/en/ref/20276/vaccine

saif
12-Sep-2009, 03:20 PM
Brother there is a difference between a virus being GROWN in cells of human and animal origin and the vaccine containing any human/animal products. The two aren't the same.

Biological growth media means the cells are grown in supplements derived from the animals listed, it doesn't mean the vaccine contains these things.


Then why has the page got a big heading that says:
Vaccine components and constituents:

They grow the virus in the cells of humans and animals. They cannot guarantee that the animal cells are completely removed from the vaccine.

Seeing as they use other animal products such as pig fat as a stabiliser for the vaccine, I dont see why they would think it is a big deal to leave animal products in the vaccine.


Gelatin is a partially hydrolysed collagen(fat), usually of bovine(cow) or porcine(pig) origin, and is one of many types of stabilisers added to vaccines


Vaccine manufacture requires the production of organisms cultivated on an appropriate culture medium. A medium must provide nutrients such as proteins, albumin, polypeptides, and growth factors specific to the needs of the microbe. Animal sera(blood products) are frequently added to culture media to provide nutrients for microbial growth. Bovine serum(blood product) is primarily used, although serum(blood product) from pigs, horses, rabbits or humans may also be used. Extensive filtering processes ensure that the final vaccine contains little, if any, of the original cell material.


More than 5000 human and animal cell lines are available. Those used in vaccine manufacture include two diploid cell strains of human origin (MRC-5 and WI-38), simian-derived(monkey) continuous and diploid cell lines, chick embryo and chick embryo fibro-blasts.14 Residual proteins from these cell lines may be present to a varying degree in the vaccines produced from them.


Certain cell lines (human diploid cell lines WI-38 and MRC-5) were derived from embryonic tissue from three elective, medically indicated abortions conducted in the 1960s

umm_mohammed
12-Sep-2009, 03:47 PM
So which vaccinations are people ok giving their child, and which ones are they not happy with and why?

All my children are up to date with their immunisations. Jamila is now due for her 4 yo vaccines and I'll take her soon insha'Allah.

It's funny but after reading the posts and the fatwa from Islam Q & A I am happy with my decision to vaccinate my children. And I also don't think there's a link between Autism and MMR. And yes, all my children are waiting to be assessed but I think it's a genetic link and nothing else. Allahu alem. I guess we'll know more in the not so distant future insha'Allah. I wonder if the incidence of ASD will drop as less and less people vaccinate their children? We just have to wait and see...

cheesegirl
12-Sep-2009, 03:47 PM
Extensive filtering processes ensure that the final vaccine contains little, if any, of the original cell material.

That's the key point from your post. What does little mean? It could be less than 0.1%, it could be less than 0.01%, in which case the question must be asked if it is low enough that it could be neglected. And of course it also said IF ANY, meaning 0%.

umm_mohammed
12-Sep-2009, 03:48 PM
Another fatwa http://www.islam-qa.com/en/ref/49001

umm_mohammed
12-Sep-2009, 03:49 PM
I also feel I need to add that I totally respect those who do not vaccinate their children. :)

Adelaidean
12-Sep-2009, 03:54 PM
there are some very dangerous vaccines.

saif
12-Sep-2009, 04:30 PM
That's the key point from your post. What does little mean? It could be less than 0.1%, it could be less than 0.01%, in which case the question must be asked if it is low enough that it could be neglected. And of course it also said IF ANY, meaning 0%.


...little, if any... does not mean 0% it means that sometimes there is some leftover. Doesnt specify how much or how often.


Even if you are satisfied that the cells used to make the vaccine are of such small quantity to be almost neglible, there is still the matter of the stabiliser, which is made up of animal fat - sometimes pig fat!

UmmRasheed
12-Sep-2009, 05:51 PM
I have read the thread and I have not seen a fatwa saying immunisation is unlawful or even disliked.

Please bring fatwa from an expert.

Umm Binyameen
12-Sep-2009, 06:04 PM
http://www.islam-qa.com/en/ref/20276/vaccine

It says at the end of that fatwa:

But if it is medically proven that a specific vaccine causes harm to the body or that its harmful effects outweigh its effects of warding off disease, then it is not permissible to use it in that case, because the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said, “There should be neither harm nor reciprocating harm.”

And Allaah knows best.

Proof of the harm is the key. If there is proof that there is harm from a certain vaccine then we should avoid it.

SuBMiSSioN
12-Sep-2009, 06:45 PM
At the moment though there isn't any solid proof. There's only theory after theory. We should be careful not to make something haram upon the people if there isn't a need to. This is treading on dangerous ground.

saif
12-Sep-2009, 07:01 PM
Are there any fatawa regarding the permissibility of injecting animal stuffs into our bodies?

Lena
12-Sep-2009, 10:32 PM
Maybe its best someone asks a local sheikh InshaAllah about the matter and posts the response.

Adelaidean
12-Sep-2009, 11:09 PM
i'd ask peopel that know about vaccines whether they are worth the risk or not, rather than someone that is not educated in vaccinations.