New mum at just 12 years old

[Alhamdulillah]

Girl, 12, gives birth to baby boy

A GIRL, 12, who fell pregnant to her 15-year-old live-in boyfriend, has given birth to a baby boy.

Earlier this year, the NSW Department of Community Services (DoCS) was forced to apologise when it was revealed the girl's father had warned them his daughter was sleeping with her boyfriend at her mother's house.

Now, the girl's father has told the latest edition of Woman's Day he does not think his daughter is up to the task of being a mother.

"She is only a baby herself and now she's got a baby," he said.

"She has no maternal instincts at all. She never even played with dolls when she was younger. She never played at being a mummy. This breaks my heart."

He said the girl was "petrified" when she went into labour and had to have an emergency caesarean.

Three weeks later, he said she was struggling with the demands of being a mother despite receiving regular counselling and parental training from DoCS.

Kerryn Minister for Community Services Linda Burney in June admitted the girl's case had been overlooked by a "stretched" DoCS.

"We get 300,000 notifications every year and there isn't anybody collating the figures of child pregnancies,'' the minister's spokesperson told the Daily Telegraph.

The girl's father said he was not surprised to learn DoCS was clueless about the extent of the "tragedy'' confronting his family.

"I phoned that helpline over a year ago and I waited for a local Dubbo DoCS intake officer to ring and they never did,'' he said.

When his daughter revealed she was pregnant, her father offered to raise the baby with his new partner.

"I said that I would do everything to help her," he told Women's Day, "And I offered to adopt the baby and bring it up so she could get back to school and get on with her life."

But after consulting with the child's 15-year-old father and seriously considering abortion, the 12-year-old girl made the choice to raise the child herself.

"He said that he wanted to keep the baby, so my daughter decided to continue the pregnancy. Sadly, they aren't together anymore."

"I think she has shown such courage," he told Women's Day. "It was so intimidating for her being surrounded by people telling her to have an abortion."

"It's not the best start in life, but I know the little fella will be given loads of love."

Since 2000, the youngest mother in New South Wales was just 11 and fewer than six 12-year-olds had given birth, the NSW Registry of Births, Deaths and Marriages said.

With AAP and The Daily Telegraph

link (http://www.news.com.au/story/0,27574,26323548-421,00.html)

If 11 year-olds are pregnant in present-day Australia, I don't see the difficulty with accepting the marriage of 'Aisha radiAllahu 'anha.

[cheesegirl]

In case you didn't realise, no one is happy about this girl being pregnant.

[Abdraheim]

i feel sorry for the baby brought up by kaafirs in a broken home

[Perspective]

i feel sorry for the baby brought up by kaafirs in a broken home

how do you know they are kaafirs?

what if this is a test for them?

and the article states that the father seems to be doing what can to accomodate the child and his daughter.

and the girl i did the right thing by not aborting the baby.

it's a pretty strong word to use in this situation....

[GMan]

[QUOTE=Perspective;381372]how do you know they are kaafirs?QUOTE]

Perhaps he jumped to that conclusion because the father was 15 and not 112?

http://www.aussiemuslims.com/forums/showthread.php?t=33425

[abu rashid]

GMan, Islam permits people (who have attained the age of puberty) to get married, so they may fulfil their natural inclinations in a permissible and correct manner. Because the man is sometimes older than the woman is irrelevant, even though you seem a little hung up on the idea.

I have a friend for instance whose grandmother was 26 when she was married, and his grandfather was only 12 (although back in those times, and in Islamic countries especially, a 12 yo. was usually much more of a man than most 30 yo. in our society today).

In many cases the woman is often older than the man, yet nobody finds that newsworthy, why not? Instead the focus is on those cases where the man is older, in order to project the West's sick fantasies of dirty old men 'hunting' for 'young prey' onto the Muslim society.

[GMan]

Not at all Abu Rashid. I'm sure it's every little girl's dream to be the fourth wife of a wrinkled old man just a few months or years from death.

[abu rashid]

Yeh because that's just such a common occurance, that a young girl becomes the fourth wife of a very old man.

[Alhamdulillah]

Not at all Abu Rashid. I'm sure it's every little girl's dream to be the fourth wife of a wrinkled old man just a few months or years from death.

Yeah, just like it's the dream of all of those young women who choose to live in Hugh Hefner's nice little harem (who happens to be about five times their age).

[Alhamdulillah]

In case you didn't realise, no one is happy about this girl being pregnant.

Well no one's appears to be going crazy over it, either.

[GMan]

all of those young women who choose to live in Hugh Hefner's nice little harem (who happens to be about five times their age).

Their highly questionable taste and judgement notwithstanding, they are not 9, 10 or 12 years old and made the decision to live in that situation of their own free will.

[Alhamdulillah]

The Prophet (peace be upon him) said, "A virgin should not be married till she is asked for her consent; and the matron should not be married till she is asked whether she agrees to marry or not." (Bukhari)

A woman from the offspring of Ja'far was afraid lest her guardian marry her (to somebody) against her will. So she sent for two elderly men from the Ansar, 'AbdurRahman and Mujammi', the two sons of Jariya, and they said to her, "Don't be afraid, for Khansa' bint Khidam was given by her father in marriage against her will, then the Prophet cancelled that marriage." (Bukhari)


It appears, then, that according to your reasoning, the female subject of the above article did not actually get involved in a relationship at God knows what age as a result of her own free will, but was forced into it. 'Ajeeb.

[cheesegirl]

Their highly questionable taste and judgement notwithstanding, they are not 9, 10 or 12 years old and made the decision to live in that situation of their own free will.

You mean like the SEVENTEEN year old girl in the article you posted?

As long as she willingly entered that marriage, I don't see how it is anyone elses business, or how it has anything to do with Islam. They could have easily been non-Muslims getting married under Australian law as well, if she were a year older.

[Umm Binyameen]

I know a girl who is very mature and responsible who fell pregnant (by choice) at 15. She's a better mother, and more grown up than a lot of non-muslim girls. Islam says it's ok for a girl and boy to marry when they have reached puberty (consentual of course), and Allah (swt) created their bodies to be ready for it then as well.

[Girl]

GMan, Islam permits people (who have attained the age of puberty) to get married, so they may fulfil their natural inclinations in a permissible and correct manner. Because the man is sometimes older than the woman is irrelevant, even though you seem a little hung up on the idea.

I have a friend for instance whose grandmother was 26 when she was married, and his grandfather was only 12 (although back in those times, and in Islamic countries especially, a 12 yo. was usually much more of a man than most 30 yo. in our society today).

In many cases the woman is often older than the man, yet nobody finds that newsworthy, why not? Instead the focus is on those cases where the man is older, in order to project the West's sick fantasies of dirty old men 'hunting' for 'young prey' onto the Muslim society.

Just because someone has "natural inclinations", that doesn't make them emotionally or mentally ready for marriage or to get pregnant either for that matter.

[Explorer]

trust me, nobody is ever prepared for marriage.

Its takes work after ur married to keep it going, nothing to do with before.

[abu rashid]

Girl, whilst that might be true of people today and in Australia, facts show that in the past, and even in many other societies in other countries today it is not true. Peoples bodies go through puberty because their Creator has created them to be ready at that time. The emotional/mental thing is very cultural, and I agree in Western society today most people are probably not ready for marriage until well after 18 even!

But that is very specific to Western culture, so when considering the perspective of humanity as a whole, it's not quite as relevant as you might think.

Even just a century or so ago, the age of consent in British realms (including Australia) was 12. In some British realms it was not a set age but simply "when reaching puberty".

So whilst your viewpoint does have some relevance to the situation in Australia today, it's not a universally applicable truth or viewpoint, it's very specific to our place, time and culture, and therefore subject to change.

[Ahmad]

It doesn't make them not emotionally or mentally ready either. If only people realised how quickly boys and girls matured before TV, Internet and Video Games came about.. boys became men and girls became women at such young ages, and they still do in areas where they don't have the aforementioned distractions.

[Girl]

It doesn't make them not emotionally or mentally ready either. If only people realised how quickly boys and girls matured before TV, Internet and Video Games came about.. boys became men and girls became women at such young ages, and they still do in areas where they don't have the aforementioned distractions.

The first part of your argument makes sense, but how do you know that the absence of such inventions directly contributed to immature children? And how can we really know what the emotional and mental states of these people in the past really were? When did we become so insightful?

[Ahmad]

Transcending history and the world, a Tale of Souls and Swords, eternally retold... sorry, got a bit side-tracked there, you mean how do I know the absence contributed to mature children? We can know such things through history and by looking at today's generation of immaturity. We can even just look a couple of generations back to see how different things were, your grandparents can tell you stories. As always, I'm talking in a general sense.

[Girl]

History can be flawed, its not like its written by God, its written and recorded by human beings who have their own motives and agendas

[Explorer]

whatever.
bottom line if my daughter wanted to get jiggy with some guy when she was 12 they can get married or have no jiggy at all.

I wouldn't just say straight out wait till ur 18.

I they want to do it, at least let it be halal.

Even if they are too imature for marriage and end up getting divorced, it's not like they've done anything haram.

[littleMother]

I also know of younger couples, who got married in there teens/early twenties, only to divorce less than a year later or soemthing like that, but it is still better than falling for some person, committing zinaa with them, then getting dumped, possibly pregnant. i know which of the two scenarios i would prefer...

someone said to me once, that its better to be married and divorced a few times, then to have committed zinaa even just once!

[cheesegirl]

But they just might end up scarring themselves for the rest of their lives! Why would you want to marry off a 12 year old if you know they are still immature? Physical maturity isn't the only sign that needed to acertain that a person is ready for marriage - mental maturity is also essential and as mentioned earlier in our societies there is pretty much no hope of a 12 year old boy or girl being ready for marriage.

[caller]

i think seemingly immature young married couples should live with one or the other families for guidance and best success, and Allah knows best.

[littleMother]

^ thats usually how i have seen it happen

[littleMother]

if 12 year olds (or kids at any age) are gonne be getting a lil too intimate with other ppl anyway, I would want them to atleast be married when they do it, living with family and under adult supervision has got to be better than saying 'ur not getting married til you are over 18' then they go being naughty behind there parents backs, getting pregnant etc etc...

and trust me, i have known of a few sexually active 12 and 13 yr olds, its not that uncommon, unfortunately.

[Al Baitel 'ateeq]

The issue here is determining if children are mature enough and wanting to get married early, or they just want to have a boyfriend/girlfriend and experiment like most people under halaal circumstances.. I don't think it's ok to get them married early so their actions are halaal, when in reality their relationship would be more of a 'dating' one as opposed to a proper marriage. Most likely they would get divorced soon until they meet the next potential dating partner. Would you allow them to get married again so their actions are halaal? This can be dangerous.

It's just like other children/young adults who meet someone for marrital purposes and decide to become legally married in order to get to know the other person better so that they may determine if that person is right for them. This is wrong and equivalent to dating as their intention of writing the contract was not one for marriage.

[khadouj]

If they are considered "mature" enough for sex then they should also be considered "mature" enough for marriage.
Instead it is okay to put under 18's on the pill, and give them an abortion when they get pregnant. But of course having multiple sexual partners, risking contracting life threatening diseases, and having multiple abortions before you are 18 is considered perfectly acceptable rather than the "evils" of marrying before you are 18.
None of the above could possibly scar or traumatise a young girl. It seems having an abortion to them is less traumatic than a divorce.

The only unusual thing about this particular case is that the girl decided not to kill her unborn baby. So called teenaged pregnancies are far from unusual you only have to see the number of abortions that are performed every year. Where are the headlines "Another 12 year old has an abortion"

I cannot understand the logic in stating that killing an unborn child is considered preferable than an early marriage and possible divorce. Does divorce only happen to under age partners?.
Have they banned sex before you are 18 ? abortion before you are 18 ,no, so by their logic it is only marriage that is harmful, how can it be that if you are under 18 you are old enough to have sex with as many partners as you choose (also under 18) and old and mature enough to understand the ramifications of killing your unborn child, but not old enough to choose to marry and have one partner and give birth to that child and raise that child. The girls are mature enough to sign a paper killing their child but not old enough to sign a paper to marry the father of that child.

As for muslims, puberty has been the criteria for centuries, young marriages were normal to preserve the chastity of both males and females. Zayd ibn Haaritha was married very young to a much older woman, (umm Ayman). His son Usaamah ibn Zayd was married when he was 11-12, this marriage was arranged by the Prophet Sallallahu alayhi wasallam, there are many other cases if you look in the books of genealogy and history.
It has always been considered part of a parents responsibility to marry your children to safeguard them and to help them if they could not afford to marry.
In western history, early marriages were normal as well, as long as chastity has been considered important this has been the case in any society. Now in western society chastity is of no consequence and archaic, young children are almost drowning in sexually explicit movies and advertising campaigns, even childrens cartoons are full of sexual references and encouragement of sexual activity and even worse abortion is just another medical research cash for body parts industry. What is sad though is that we muslims are being pulled into this stupidity by insisting that our children have to go to uni and graduate and get a good job BEFORE they can even consider marriage. As if mixed schools and unis and work place environments dont have any risk for our young ...is it only the non muslims who are having teenage promiscuity and unwanted pregnancies. Their answer to all of this is condoms, the pill and abortion, is that going to be our answer as well.

[sis tm]

i feel sorry for the baby brought up by kaafirs in a broken home

Some of the best muslims are brought up in environments like this. It teaches them what not to do in thier lives.

[Explorer]

The problem is, our kids are physically ready for ongoing sexual relationships (ie marriage), but at 12, 13, 14 years old the girls are never asked to pick up the dishes, vacuum, help cook, fix their beds, they have no responsibilty at all and b4 any1 comes out saying child abuse, this is only teaching them LIFE SKILLS.

So, we have 14 year old girls that know how to do their hair, paint their nails, wrap their hijab 50 million ways and put on massive eyeliner ticks, how to flirt with guys and how to start a sexual relationship.
But they have no idea how to wash a dish or fry an egg.

Same with boys.
teenagers and still not asked to take out the rubbish, pick out the weeds or get a part time job.
So they can gel their hairs, smoke, walk around shopping centres and have sex but have no idea how to take on any responsibility.

And the WORST thing is, this has become NORMAL to us.
We think 'oh she's only 14, how would she know how to cook/make coffee/ wash clothes'
My point is, we're the ones that have created this image that marriage come like 8 years AFTER puberty.

In other societies puberty coincides with the time for marriage but the difference is these girls have been brought up in a way where they're actually ready for it.

[Placings]

If they are considered "mature" enough for sex then they should also be considered "mature" enough for marriage.

Do you really think so sister? I'm not so sure.

True, people at the time of the Prophet (pbuh) and in societies before then married very young.

However one can hardly compare the X-Box generation of today with the generation of youth that produced scholars who wrote their exegensis of Surah Al Fatiha at 5 years old or led armies at 17.

We are talking two different leagues here. They may be physically ready for sex but have you-know-what for brains. Multiply that by two and you have a crap fest of a marriage just for the sake of the family's reputation?

The guy and girls happiness seems completely forgotten.

[caller]

i generally agree with you placings, but there are families who raise their kids substantially better than the general society and are thus exceptions, i ask Allah to bless such families and guide us all to being great parents.

[Girl]

Just because someone is physically ready for sex, doesn't mean that they are emotionally ready. Why does having sexual desires at 12 need to result in either zina or marriage, don't people have self - control anymore?

[saif]

Obviuosly not, otherwise we wouldnt have so many unwed mothers in this country.

[caller]

The problem is, our kids are physically ready for ongoing sexual relationships (ie marriage), but at 12, 13, 14 years old the girls are never asked to pick up the dishes, vacuum, help cook, fix their beds, they have no responsibilty at all and b4 any1 comes out saying child abuse, this is only teaching them LIFE SKILLS.

So, we have 14 year old girls that know how to do their hair, paint their nails, wrap their hijab 50 million ways and put on massive eyeliner ticks, how to flirt with guys and how to start a sexual relationship.
But they have no idea how to wash a dish or fry an egg.

Same with boys.
teenagers and still not asked to take out the rubbish, pick out the weeds or get a part time job.
So they can gel their hairs, smoke, walk around shopping centres and have sex but have no idea how to take on any responsibility.

And the WORST thing is, this has become NORMAL to us.
We think 'oh she's only 14, how would she know how to cook/make coffee/ wash clothes'


i missed this post before, very accurate i say, well done.

unfortunately it will take a generation or more to correct this, and its the wider societies fault (not malicious but perhaps not foreseeable), the current dying out generations had a hard upbringing so they wanted to make it easy on their kids and get them the best education, so they worked their butts off among other things and life skills were less a priority, especially as more household gadgets were becoming more easily available, then that generation, the baby boomers, my parents generation, did the same thing and literally spoiled the next generations stupid, so we are so intelligent mashaAllah, but we suck at practical day to day thing, some of us have to learn things that were common knowledge back in the day, and having both parents working full time outside the home exacerbates the situation.

also when the kids get to that sexed up age the parents yell at them to take responsibility, and they rebel more, subhanAllah, they send them to school from 5 or 6 years old to learn stuff, but dont teach them to be responsible at all, but then expect them to be that.

[Umm Binyameen]

I agree with all that is being said. I also think that if young teenagers are clearly wanting to be sexually active, and you don't think they have the will-power not to commit zina, then it is best to push them towards marriage. Otherwise what happens far too often is that if you forbid them from seeing boys/girls, they're just gonna sneek out and do it, or even run away. This society actually supports kids that leave their home, not so much in other countries. So my advice is that if your child is showing signs of wanting to date, and you fear that they will become sexually active because you don't believe they have enough islamic knowledge and fear of Allah or you don't have enough control over their environment, then encourage them to marry, and let them and their new partner live with you. You can help teach them about the responsibilities of life, how to be a good husband/wife etc while they are with you until they are ready to move out. But this takes courage and committment!

[Girl]

I agree with all that is being said. I also think that if young teenagers are clearly wanting to be sexually active, and you don't think they have the will-power not to commit zina, then it is best to push them towards marriage. Otherwise what happens far too often is that if you forbid them from seeing boys/girls, they're just gonna sneek out and do it, or even run away. This society actually supports kids that leave their home, not so much in other countries. So my advice is that if your child is showing signs of wanting to date, and you fear that they will become sexually active because you don't believe they have enough islamic knowledge and fear of Allah or you don't have enough control over their environment, then encourage them to marry, and let them and their new partner live with you. You can help teach them about the responsibilities of life, how to be a good husband/wife etc while they are with you until they are ready to move out. But this takes courage and committment!

I just don't believe that people in general can't exercise self - control if they want to. If you want to ensure that your child doesn't sneak around then you need to actually explain why they aren't allowed to interact with the other sex instead of just pushing them towards marriage when they should be focusing on school.

[Explorer]

^But that's telling them they can't do something that Allah has made Halal.
Allah didn't tell us dnt rush your ids into marriage.

Isn't there a hadith saying something along the lines of one shouldnt rush in life, except for marrying your children and somehing else I wish I could remember it.

Anyway my point is, not many of us want to see our 12 year old daughters get married, but if you notice they have an interest in boys or you catch them sneaking out or having sex, we shouldn't deny these natural instincts, we should embrace them.
In a halal way.

[Umm Binyameen]

I just don't believe that people in general can't exercise self - control if they want to. If you want to ensure that your child doesn't sneak around then you need to actually explain why they aren't allowed to interact with the other sex instead of just pushing them towards marriage when they should be focusing on school.

Of course that's what you do.....but once they have already fallen 'in love' it's very difficult for them to exercise self-control. Heck, they probably think 'its divine intervention' and it's their 'destiny' to be with this person.

[Girl]

Of course that's what you do.....but once they have already fallen 'in love' it's very difficult for them to exercise self-control. Heck, they probably think 'its divine intervention' and it's their 'destiny' to be with this person.

But before they get to the stage here they think they've fallen in love parents can make an effort to explain to them what love actually is - its something that grows between two people within a marriage rather than before.

[Umm Binyameen]

Of course you're right, but prevention doesn't always work. I agree with what you're saying BUT if it did happen, then I stand by my statement.

[SuBMiSSioN]

The guy's been banned. May Allaah guide him.

[Abu Layla]

I'm not sure whether banning him is a solution or the best thing. I'm not sure if he said anything after that comment he made in this thread... I only saw the post where he 'quoted' Maududi rahimahullah. Maybe refuting him would be better?

[SuBMiSSioN]

He said a lot more than what he quoted. I would've left that and allowed people to refute him, but it went a lot deeper and got a lot more personal than that.

May Allaah guide him.

[caller]

did i miss something?