Help strengthen the Melbournian Sisterhood

[um mohamed]

Salaam,

To all my sisters in Islam. I received this e-mail, please check out the website and forward to all your connections.

It seems like a good idea, insha'Allah it takes off and does well that way we know we're supporting eachother in every possible way.

W'salam

[Sunshine]

This is a good idea, Insha'Allah it gets up and running. I hope to add my name to the list soon .

[carol_au]

This is a good idea, Insha'Allah it gets up and running. I hope to add my name to the list soon .

Is there a link missing in the original post? can someone point me to the email or a description of the project.. Jazak Allah khair

[UmmRasheed]

i cant seem to find a link...how can i find the info?

[um mohamed]

http://promuslimwomensnetwork.googlepages.com

[cheesegirl]

Sounds like a good initiative mashaAllah!

I just have one little bone to pick... I just felt like the part quoted below was uncalled for. Firstly, many people are left behind, and I just feel like, the way it is worded, it reinforces stereotypes of Muslim women that non-Muslims tend to have...

As the world 'progresses', the Muslim women are the ones being left behind. We are being left behind career-wise, financially and socially.

[TAS]

I just have one little bone to pick... I just felt like the part quoted below was uncalled for. Firstly, many people are left behind, and I just feel like, the way it is worded, it reinforces stereotypes of Muslim women that non-Muslims tend to have...

As the world 'progresses', the Muslim women are the ones being left behind. We are being left behind career-wise, financially and socially.

Its not a "little" bone you have picked. Its a MAJOR issue.

The quoted sentence it makes "career-wise" and "finance" and "socially" out to be some sort of goals that we need to aspire to.

I didn't read the links or whatever... but that line you picked on is the kind of psychological triggers that are used by the enemies of Islam and unwitting Muslims alike (who either have lost the capacity to think or are active agents of the enemies of Islam)- to socially program the masses like sheep and force them into the workforce rat race, teach them to be thankless and not be content with their lot (unIslamic), question their fate (something a Muslim is not supposed to do), and break up the family unit which is the CORE BUILDING BLOCK of society (unIslamic except in cases of abuse, which anyways is brought about by this kind of a mindset).

THAT SENTENCE (and others like it) is the reason why the west leads the world in moral collapse, cultural decadence, sexual perversion and massive divorce rates- a society that exonerates materialism and selfishness and abhors the institution of the family as a burden rather than appreciating it as a blessing.

I'll find it out and post it if I remember, but there is a verse in the Quran that explicitly tells the Prophet to not look to the material progress and the worldly life of the kuffaar and be upset. Theres a sahih hadith too that this world is heaven for the disbelievers and hell for the believers.

The prophet has taught us to be content with what we have in our lives. In relation to that sentence cheesegirl quotes, theres EXPLICIT ahadith that say that hell is more full of women than men and one of the reasons for that is women are not content with what they have and are very thankless. That stupid comment only triggers this attitude of discontentment and thanklessness amongst our sisters.

Im not saying we shouldnt strive to better our duniya. The prophet peace be upon him has prayed to Allah for goodness in this duniya and the akhirah. The glorious khilafat ar-raashidah and the other great Muslim empires like the Ottomans are proof that we can and should work to raise our standards in worldly life too... that however DOES NOT mean that we need to follow the kuffar and set their social model as a benchmark for us.

In fact in sports and fitness, one of the best techniques to enhance one's performance is to compete against one self. We should only look to beat our last record. The same approach needs to be employed by the Ummah as a whole on all matters, religious and worldly.

BEWARE of those kind of psychological triggers and subliminal messages that in a VERY SUBTLE WAY, try to change our Islamic thought processes.

Good on ya for picking it out cheesegirl.
**********

One thing Muslim women are being "left behind" in their chase of the American dream is MOTHERHOOD... and that is something REQUIRED of them by Allah and His Messenger

Maybe those financially independant, social, career women need to think about being better mothers and raising half way decent MUSLIM children.

But oh yah, when was the last time that was fun? All our career women Muslima's oh so pretentiously need to "put my education to good use" and "be a productive member of society" and "but I'm only doing it to help the community " and all those other wonderful comments along with

"Islamic" justifications like: "Islam allows me to work and own a business, look at the example of Khadija radi Allahu anha" and "where does it say hiring a day care center is haram" and "men and women are equal in Islam" and other such catch phrases uttered out of context and with the most selfish of intentions.

Disclaimer: Yes Islam does ALLOW women to work and own a business. It does ALLOW them to hire a baby sitter too and yes men and women are equal.

However, Islam doesnt just "allow" it makes it OBLIGATORY to be a good parent, that is something the pretentious "career women Muslimas" forget to address.

If those "Islamic" justifications are presented in the right context, they are excellent comments, but in the wrong context and for the wrong reasons and with the wrong intentions, theyre NOTHING BUT DISASTER for the Ummah as they are used to support and promote social models and benchmarks that are CATEGORICALLY NOT a part of Islam but rather AGAINST IT. THAT is where the problem lies.

[مروة]

TAS, i dont think that sentence was promoting anything beyond islamic limits.

Sisters do infact have a major problem today in terms of finding islamically suitable careers (some sisters need to work), in terms of finance some may be disadvantaged as well for not being able to work, and socially, well ..we have very few halal social outlets and support networks for sisters.

I understand what you are saying in terms of there being a problem of many sisters aspiring to achieve things that have been glorified in the west.. but once again I do not believe that this is the objective of this initiative walahu A3lam.

[TAS]

Like I said sister, I have nothing to do with the initiative itself or the people involved and DID NOT comment on the group or the initiative. Insha Allah they will be all great Muslimahs. I have to have husn al-zann for all Muslims.

I was commenting on THAT ONE SENTENCE stand alone. It may not be promoting anything unIslamic in and of itself. In fact forget that comment. The other sentences I mentioned like "Islam allows women to work" is even more stronger and doesn't promote anything unIslamic either. I think I amply described how and why those comments are used as psychological triggers many a time.

I do realise some sisters will HAVE TO work, or work on 2 jobs even barely to make ends meet. However, sentences like those and the "Islamic" justifications I mentioned, more often than not, are used by Muslims (both sisters and brothers) who are just looking to build a "halal" model of a Simpsons home and the American dream rather than those brothers and sisters who are truly helpless in face of circumstances. Look around in any society and you will see for yourself.

See that sentence stand alone... without any relation to the group or the initiative talked about, and think about what it triggers in a person. It triggers a desire to chase a career and finances and social status eqaul to that of 'the world'... and that is not something Islam promotes!

Personally I think our sisters should be EQUALLY as obsessed with ISLAMIC MOTHERHOOD as they are about "Islamically suitable careers". Lately what I have noticed is that the focus is only on the latter which is only a permission, with the former being mandatory and YET heading for the sewers!

[SuBMiSSioN]

What about if you're not a mother yet.....?

(Just bringing this up for discussion.. )

[TAS]

They still gotta work towards being a better Muslima. Same goes for the brothers.

Our deeds depend on intention, as the hadith says.

Just saying in order of priorities, motherhood comes BEFORE career and thats what a lot of sisters are forgetting these days. In the same breath a lot of brothers too are forgetting some family responsibilities.- thanks to subliminal messaging and psychological and emotional programming by the sentences such as those cheesegirl picked out on and other social engineering efforts.

Brother or sister, our priorities need to be organized as outlined by the Sharia. 5 daily prayers come first... and so on. With that in mind, being better Muslims 3end'Allah and 3end'an'naas (as father, mother, son, daughter etc.) and thus maintaining the family in accordance with the Sharia come before career and finance and other material goals any day.

Its pretty simple and straight forward concept that we seem to have messed up lately.

[carol_au]

A little off subject but definitely related.. Mercy Mission are currently looking for projects to support Muslim women in Melbourne and will be holding a sisters forum in November to discuss this matter.

Some suggestions have already been raised..but if anyone has ideas of what is lacking in Melbourne by way of support for Muslim women.. insha'Allah please do pm me with your ideas and I'll raise them at the meeting.

We are looking for small projects initially, but with potential to grow and develop and definitely ones that will impact the widest selection of women.. be they born Muslim, reverts, single, married etc.

We are also very happy to work with other organisations and supporting existing projects as well as working with Muslimahs to help 'kick start" new projects.

So please send us your ideas insha'Allah

Jazak Allah khair

[um mohamed]

Actually I can't beleive some people had such strong responces to that sentence.
I mean, I didn't think of this idea i'm just passing it on but personally I think it IS true in Melbourne, except for some exceptions.
Most Muslim women have no career path (when you make the choice not to work that's fine, but when you're stuck in a loser job that takes you nowhere, that's a problem).
It is a fact that most Muslims are in a lower socio-economic class.
And it is also a fact that Muslim women are more isolated socially than any other culture/religion.
And don't tell me that being socially isolated is okay, it is NEVER ok, especially in Islam.

I think that sentence is a tactic to make some women realise they need to stick together.


I'm going onto the site right now to put my details down.

Salaam

[cheesegirl]

Most Muslim women have no career path

You got some stats to back that up?

[SuBMiSSioN]

Is there anything wrong with not having a career path? It's the mentality that 'you're stuck in a loser job and not getting anywhere with it' that seems to be the problem. When a sister has to work to provide for either herself or her family do you really think she cares about getting anywhere with her job? As long as her job is something which is earning her halal money - then I don't see why any sister would be complaining.

There's nothing wrong with aiming to go up higher in your job - but there's also absolutely nothing wrong with earning an income which many people would frown at.

[um mohamed]

Cheesegirl do you really need me to start ripping out DHS and census statistics? I think you will be suprised to find that almost every 'stereotype' is true. It's unfortunate, but true. The whole aim of the network is to get sisters using eachother's products and services exclusively. How can you go wrong with that?

And yes, Submission, there is nothing wrong with a woman having a respectable job to earn halal money and never moving up in the corporate ladder, there is a problem if it's a loser job. That's my whole point. If it's a good job, or you decide to stay home, great. But when you're in a crappy job, it's not on. You either get out of it or improve yourself. true?

[SuBMiSSioN]

It's all relative. Who's to say what job is a loser job and what isn't? Maybe that "loser" job is the only job the sister can take up in the hours she wants to work in. Or the only job that she can get to without any hassles.

If the sister is happy where she is - then no one has the right to say anything to her. Moving up in the "corporate" world will bring you to many haraam situations. The mixing that goes on, the late-night meetings, the dinners or the 101 functions that go on during the year. It really isn't something a Muslimah should be a part of and proud of doing.

What I'd like to know is what's so unfortunate about not wanting to be a career woman??

[cheesegirl]

Cheesegirl do you really need me to start ripping out DHS and census statistics? I think you will be suprised to find that almost every 'stereotype' is true.

Typical stereotype: Muslim women are uneducated and oppressed and don't speak English, forced to wear hijab by their abusive fathers or husbands, do not work, haven't been to school, are chained to the kitchen with 10 young kids running around their ankles before they reach the age of thirty.

Does it reflect reality: heck no!!!

[مروة]

I really dont know why people get so defensive about such stereotypes:

1- What's wrong with not having a secular education?

2- What's wrong with not speaking english?

3- Forced to wear hijab.. Parents and Husbands have a duty to protect and guide their children.. I dont think many parents would be so defensive if someone said: How dare you force your kids not to take drugs! .. Double standard

4-What's wrong with being a good housewife and raising many kids at a young age?! Nothing..

[TAS]

It's all relative. Who's to say what job is a loser job and what isn't? Maybe that "loser" job is the only job the sister can take up in the hours she wants to work in. Or the only job that she can get to without any hassles.

If the sister is happy where she is - then no one has the right to say anything to her. Moving up in the "corporate" world will bring you to many haraam situations. The mixing that goes on, the late-night meetings, the dinners or the 101 functions that go on during the year. It really isn't something a Muslimah should be a part of and proud of doing.

What I'd like to know is what's so unfortunate about not wanting to be a career woman??

Million dollar post... really. Words like that make all the more difference when they come from a sister. Barak Allahu feeki.

Insha Allah more of us Muslim men and women can question the lifestyle and status quo of the "modern" world as you have in your post.

Our sisters (generally, not necessarily on the forum) have done well to cite the example of Khadija radi Allahu anha owning her own business. Perhaps they also need to study the life of her own daughter the blessed Fatima Az-Zahraa radi Allahu anha and how she lived her married life with Seyyidina Ali radi Allahu anhu with the bare minimum of necessities DESPITE the world "progressing" and her staying behind "career-wise" "financially" and "socially". How her body used to ache doing the house work and when she asked the prophet for servants he refused as there were other more rightful owners to their services- despite her being "a part of" his blessed countenance.

Its absurd to imagine any of us will ever truly emulate the men and women who directly learnt from the blessed prophet , but they ARE benchmarks for us nonetheless. As Muslims, our first priority is ALWAYS deen and upholding an Islamic family and society and once we have that in place, we can balance it with any other objective.