New mod

[NRaf]

Why would attending IISNA over IISCA mean one is following their desires in the first place? The world isn't black and white...

[Ahmad]

It is a matter of whether you want to follow the knowledgeable sheikh in Australia or whether you want to follow your own desires.

What are you trying to say here? Who's the knowledgeable sheikh? And why are there no other options besides him?

[Musa]

Believe it or not, Islamic centres do have a scope outside of giving Fatwas.

Many people go to places like IISNA to use the gym in a Halaal atmosphere, many people might go to ICV for an Arabic class, or go to any other centre for some other reason.

If a person chooses to take advantage of the services of a centre I don't see why you should start talking about shaykhs or who is knowledgeable and who is not.. It is irrelevant.

As Ahmad seems to have said above though, why does it appear that you are suggesting either - Only 1 place has a knowledgeable shaykh that teaches there or IISNA does not have anybody of such stature.

Just a quick reminder while I'm here, next Sunday's class at IISNA will be given by Sh. Aslam Hussein Inshaa'Allaah, a graduate from Madinah University.

[@sim]

It is not a matter of 'affiliation' to a particular group. It is a matter of whether you want to follow the knowledgeable sheikh in Australia or whether you want to follow your own desires.

This sounds very similar to what George Bush said many years ago:

"You are either with us, or against us"


The classes at IISNA serve a purpose, in that the youth who are coming back to the deen have a place to nurture their thirst for Islam.

Likewise classes at IISCA also serve a purpose, in that those seeking higher learning may obtain knowledge by going there.

How following your "desires" comes into the picture is quite baffling, unless of course we take into account that the one instigating all this is in fact the one following their desires.

At present, it's becoming more and more obvious that this is the case.

[Mraf]

Masha'Allah IISNA does have knowledgeable people and it does a lot of great work for the community in particular the youth.

You don’t only have to attend IISCA classes to seek knowledge. Many masjids around Melbourne have great Mashayakh and no one is seeking out there desires by attending IISNA.

[Amin]

Just a note that the "IISNA" pamphlets are islamically reviewed by Shaykh Abu Ayman.

[Ahmad]

Oh Amin..... you've said too much, what will "they" think of "us" now?

[saif]

When I asked the students at Madina University who was the most knowledgeable sheikh in Australia, they told me it was Sheikh Abu Aymen. That is why the najority of madina University graduates work with him.

If you respect knowledge, why would go elsewhere in Melbourne?

I am not involved with ASWJ personally because I do not have the time. But if I was going to work with anyone, I would go with the most knowledgeable person available.

[Musa]

When I asked the students at Madina University who was the most knowledgeable sheikh in Australia, they told me it was Sheikh Abu Aymen. That is why the najority of madina University graduates work with him.

I hate to break it to you.. But that's not a surefire way to judge who is knowledgeable or reliable, in fact it is far from it.

Students are just that.. They are students. I know of some who study there who I would personally not take a word from, then there are others who are great, but they don't really know the situation of a place and are just giving their best opinions.

That said though, I found the opposite when asking those who studied at ot graduated from madinah University. Almost all advised the opposite, and that is just being honest. Some even said to stay far away, again just being honest.

Remember that knowledge is not only found in 1 shaykh or in students of any place. Knowledge is from the Qur'aan and the Sunnah and when a person judges by them and holds fast to them, that is what is the best criterion.

If you respect knowledge, why would go elsewhere in Melbourne?

There are teachers in all honesty with higher qualifications than Abu Ayman. Just take a look at Sh. Abdul-Adheem for example.

By the way, before I forget.. Sh. Abdul-Adheem will be giving classes soon at IISNA again (when he arrives back from Egypt) as he was doing previously.

[SuBMiSSioN]

There are some sisters here who teach IQRA/Qur'aan classes for kids at IISNA.. should they just stop volunteering because they don't have "the most knowledgeable person in Australia" working for them?

If all the sisters were to stop volunteering, where does that leave the 100 odd students who attend every weekend? Then we sit back and wonder why the teens are out roaming the streets. When we bring these children under our wings at an early age, they grow fond of the place and inshaa'Allaah as they grow up they continue coming to the centre. Don't underestimate the importance of the role places like IISNA hold with the youth.

I personally never seen anyone have such an impact on the youth in this city like Abu Hamza did, may Allaah reward him. He may not be a shaykh, but he has a way with people. Sometimes, knowledge isn't the be all end all of what makes someone such a great figure. Nothing against Shaykh Abu Ayman.. I'm just making a very general comment.

[Precious_Diamond]

This comment isn't aimed at anyone in this thread but there are many of people out there who have actually been put off attending classes at any organisation due to this weird "us" vs. "them" relationship going on. They choose not to be associated with any particular group whether it be iisna, iisca, the fawkner masjid and so on, to avoid being labelled and judged by others. It's as if these different organisations are teaching different religions or something. We are all trying to follow the same religion alhamdulilah, that should be something that unites us.

This judging between muslims has to stop! We should all just be happy that a person is seeking Islamic knowledge and trying to better themselves, regardless of where they are going. It all comes down to a persons intentions in the end.

May Allah swt guide us all (ameen).

[aussiemu]

So Nraf welcome to being a mod. Even your group affiliations and where you spend your extra time and who you associate with and whether you wear the right thobe will be scrutinised from now

[Ahmad]

Does he have any pets?

[dijma]

Time for ALL dawah organizations to mature

I would just like to say that this mentality of we are better than you is of little benefit to anyone.

Yes Alhamdulilaah ASWJ has many centres and has many shuyookh working with them but that does not mean in any way that what the other organizations are doing is of little consequence. Each organization is doing what it can, Preston Mosque, IISNA, ICV, Famsy etc. Our people should be mature enough to work with each other rather than have this hizb for their organizations.

Yes no one is perfect, we each have our faults, the quicker each of one us realizes this (esp leaders of organization and their shuras) the quicker we can work together and spreading the dawah.

We wont asked about which organization we followed, but we will be asked about what we did and how we worked with our fellow Muslims.

Ive been with ASWJ for over 10 years and I have come to realize that there will be differences and personality clashes. Sometimes that's the main obstacle to working well together, certain people just don't get along. Sometimes there are flaws in certain people that affect others around them. Sometimes its clearly a religious and theological difference between groups. That's just the reality.

Its about time that the younger generation in the dawah work against the established mentalities of their leaders and predecessors and work more towards a more cooperative approach to the dawah. The us vs you mentality is very damaging and as whole not very effective to the community. Infact its even a turn off for people.

The reality is its extremely unlikely that all groups will unite under one leader, although ideally that's how it should be. If not, lets at least work cooperatively with each other and not undermine each others efforts.

There should also be a clear distinction between brotherly social interactions and organizational interactions. Even though from an organizational point of view we don't agree, it doesn't mean that I cant get along with the brother from the other organization and have dinner with him or socialize with him in other ways.

We need to mature and break out of this 'hizb' mentality of my organization is the best and the rest are on the wrong path and join my leader. This is unproductive. Rather work with each other as much as possible and try to clean our hearts of envy and even hate against each other.

Wallaahuaalim

[Khaled]

The plot of the shaytaan.. Divide and conquer.

I agree 100% with Amjid. Just because there may have been some beef between the founders of certain organizations many years ago, the youth need to step forward and put the issues their leaders had with each other aside for the sake of Allaah. 2 of the most beloved brothers to me are Amjid and Murad, who are at the head of their respected centres. Alhamdulillah I get along with them both, and hey, they do also with each other!

[SuBMiSSioN]

saif: you've seriously just crossed all boundaries. I'm not here to stand up for IISNA, I'm here to stand up for the brothers and sisters who work there.

If you have an issue with someone, go take it up with them. The brother you spoke about says he'd love to sort this issue out. So, instead of going onto an Internet forum and backbiting him, maybe you should do something more productive and go talk to him.

Consider this your final warning. I'm really sick of people speaking down about an organisation that really is doing so much better in terms of helping the community out than the person talking it up is.

Nraf: welcome to the world of moderating.