Hajj Travel - Beware of this agent

[khadouj]

When did Hajj organisers become above reproach. Is it a business that involves profit making or not, or is it a public service done free for the benefit of muslims.
If someone is providing a free service (non profit) then you cannot really expect to get 5 star service. If you are paying for any service you are entitled to get what you have paid for, if not then you have a right to complain.
If a group of us bought a halal pizza and on delivery it was not as ordered then I am sure everyone would complain loudly if after speaking to the owners we did not get a satisfactory response .
I have seen many such comments on various postings regarding muslim operated/owned companies.
So why are these comments being made that have nothing to do with the content of the post nor do they address the issues that have been raised.

Many on this forum do not have English as their main language,or have not had the opportunities to study as some on this forum have done, so can we please have a separate section for English lessons and comment on the content of the post instead of making an issue of phrases many of us let slip at times or making us all run to a dictionary before we dare to make a post.

The issue is simple really are Hajj and Umra service providers exempt from the rules and regulations that apply to all other businesses.
Surely they should be under even more scrutiny as they are handling what is usually a once in a lifetime event. We have no choice we have to go through a licensed group to go for Hajj, so these companies have a duty to ensure that they do everything possible to make our Hajj as they have promised it to be.
I do not know this group, or if the posters complaints are real or not ...but they have a right to complain as they have tried to get satisfaction from the group.
This is the 2nd post regarding Hajj groups, shouldn't we try to address the issues instead of attacking our muslim brothers and sisters who have a grievance concerning a muslim company.

[Belal20111]

Dear Khadouj

May Allah Bless you. Every word of your post is useful.

[Belal20111]

What in the world are you going on about?

All I did was offer an advice (the same thing you came here to do). We do not believe in luck, so I gave a reminder that we should avoid these statements.. Its like if someone says 'Wa Hayaat Ummi' (I swear by my mother's life), this is shirk, the least we do is advise them by telling them it is wrong and to rather say something that is grounded in Islam.

I am sorry if you did not see this as an advice, but at least use it as a reminder to not mention luck as this is something we do not believe in.

That has nothing to do with grammar.. Rather it means that you are not just passing on a message and therefore nobody has a right to criticise what you say, rather you came here voluntarily saying these things, as such you should expect that people will respond to what you say and it will be directed at you as you were the one saying these things. If someone thinks it was correct they will commend you, if they think it is wrong they will object to what you said. Don't expect however that you can come along, criticise something but not be criticised back.??? Tolerance for what? How is Tawheed affected by tolerance?

Brother Musa

Chill down. I accept your advise but as I said even I dont belive in luck. As for tolearnce, i dont have time to give you a sermon, you need to find it yourself. Knowledge sometimes has to be got through hard work. Islam is not about lip service but actions, tawheed is about our total actions and our relationship with Allah that encompasses all His beautiful attributes and His eternal message.
I appreciate your time but i guess you have not got my point, which is fine as we dont know each other. I am open to crticism as thats leads you to a better person but shluldn't it be a 2 way process?
kindest regards.

[Musa]

The point about the hajj group I have no problem with, I have a number of issues with Labbaik as well, I was referring though to the other things.

Tawheed sometimes demands a lack of tolerance, and I don't know of any scholar that has ever mentioned that tolerance is a prerequisite for Tawheed.
You were the one that mentioned it, so the onus is on you to present the proof for it, not for you to tell me to go find it.

[Belal20111]

Dear Brother Musa

Read my post carefully. The Holy Koran inspires each of us in a different manner.

As some good person has said" It is true that tawheed is simply the oneness of Allaah, yet at the same time it is life long quest for knowledge"

One can't get true knowledge without tolerance - this is how i understand and experiencw Brother.

Today is Ashura Brother and I like to make it clear I have no hard feelings for you or anyone in the world, if i have upset you, i am sorry.

[Belal20111]

I appreciate him warning people, but the first two sentences were enough to warn us.

I mean if I owned a beauty salon and a lady wanted to say she didn't like my services and I did a bad job she's entitled to, but if she were to actually say "beauty is a lucrative business and this mob is only concerned with making a fast buck.", well then I would be pretty upset.

Thanks I get your point, i will delete those sentences.

[Musa]

One can't get true knowledge without tolerance - this is how i understand and experienced Brother.

That may be true, but that means tolerance is a prerequisite for gaining knowledge, it does not hwoever mean that Tawheed cannot be implemeted without tolerance.

To say that Tawheed requires tolerance seems odd as if anything, Tawheed teaches us to not tolerate anything that negates it. I don't think anything about Tawheed requires tolerance.

If you have anything mentioned from an authentic source do feel free to quote it.

[Belal20111]

That may be true, but that means tolerance is a prerequisite for gaining knowledge, it does not hwoever mean that Tawheed cannot be implemeted without tolerance.

To say that Tawheed requires tolerance seems odd as if anything, Tawheed teaches us to not tolerate anything that negates it. I don't think anything about Tawheed requires tolerance.

If you have anything mentioned from an authentic source do feel free to quote it.

Brother Musa
Tolerance may not be a pre-requsite for gaining knowledge but it is very essential. Look at my last post, i have thanked you for your advice and even apologised if I have upset you, knowledge is gained and appreciated through tolerance. If I was not tolerant, we would have not being having this discussion and I would have brought my ego in front of my reasoning.

Tolerance is an essentail part of Islam and we never compromise with the oneness of Allah. Look at the life of our beloved Prophet (pbuh), his actions, his behaviour and his tolerance, these are the wonderful things we need to adapt for Dawa.
Mind you, i do understand from where you are coming from. For example how can we tolerate shirk? you have a point but at the same time " Lakum denukum Waliyedin".

I see tolerance from a wholistic approach that includes our total actions and behaviour in our lives. It is how we deal with our parents, relatives, friends, non believers, people we diagree with, animals, palnts and all of Allah's creation.
Happy to discuss.

[Amin]

Belal, I think maybe "patience" is the word you're looking for, not "tolerance".

Ibn Qayyim says in his book, Patience and Gratitude, "Every step of the way, man needs patience in carrying out an act of worship."

[Belal20111]

Belal, I think maybe "patience" is the word you're looking for, not "tolerance".

Ibn Qayyim says in his book, Patience and Gratitude, "Every step of the way, man needs patience in carrying out an act of worship."

Thanks for your input, but dont they go hand in hand. Worship in Islam is not only prayers but our entire behaviour and our relationship with all of Allah's creation, this is the dynamism of Islam.

[dijma]

what exactly were the issues?

[Khaled]

Every hajj group have a year or two where things out of their control go wrong. A few years ago one of the most well known here in Melbourne had a bad experience not only for himself but for his group. However this was in no way his fault. He is a great man mashaAllaah and all his previous services have been fantastic. Unfortunately that year, he dealt and relied on people he hadn't worked with before and they let him down. Believe me akhii, he was just as upset if not more than his group. He learnt his mistake not to deal with this person again inshaAllaah but so many people slandered him, backbit him, even tried to sue him. It is only by the Mercy of Allaah that most people knew of what happened and this did not deter them from using his services again to experience hajj.

My point is akhi, NOTHING will ever go 100% as planned during hajj. It is a great trial subhaanAllaah and requires like you said, tolerance and patience. I honestly believe that Labbaik meant well and their issues were not deliberate inshaAllaah because the majority of their past services and their customers have been very satisfied with their services. We should really be making excuses for them inshaAllaah.

I'm sorry to hear you had a bad experience, nevertheless I ask Allaah to accept your hajj and give you the opportunity to go again one day and fulfil the obligations that hajj requires.

[Ansari]

There is no sin upon you if you take from the bounty of Allah during Hajj and do business..

I prefer the Gadafi approach to messengers...

[melb_muslim]

salem aleykom

I am very sorry to hear you had a bad experience with ur group. But being in hajj myself this year, i would only tell u that a person should prepare him/herself that the amount of money you are paying is not because the group wanted so, its bc everywhere in the world is paying exactly the same amount. And this wouldnot give u a 5 star service. In hajj you need to be physically and mentally accepting anything and know at the time of the prophet people had suffered a lot. They used to walk in the dessert and have no bussess and no tenant with air con and no 5 star hotel with meals included.

I am not saying u shouldnot complain, but what i am saying is that your group would have done their best, with labbaik i know masha allah their tenant was full of people and it gets harder for organiser to control that huge amount of people. Insha allah, make du3a that u go again and all the bad thing would improve. Approach the brother and go to Allah for guidance...

Before i went with my group, i heard all those horrible experience people had with my group and other groups and i was expecting the worse. But alhumdallah when it came to reality, i was pleased with the service simply bc i heard the worse and not the good.. And some people were in my group havenot heard a single word and they were expecting more and disappointed with some of the service provided. I hope you understand my point insha allah

May Allah accept your hajj and everyone else's insha allah

P.S: wanted to add that alhumdallah we were blessed to have a tenant with air con, food, hotels, buses, there were many people in hajj who were living in the street without air con, no hotels, no food provided and they were taken the food from the group of tenant from AMerica,australia, turkey and also in arafa people were standing on the sun without any cold drink, tea, coffee and meals provided. Also, i met people who had to walk from mina, arafa to mozdalefa so they had no means of transportation..So alhumdallah we were blessed compare to other people alhumdallah. Insha allah keeping this in mind would make u apprecaite the blessing you had eventhough u had issues.

salem aleykom

[Fringe]

I think Labbaik is probably the most mature, experienced and the most reputable hajj group around in Melbourne so it comes as a surprise that this group has allegedly serious issues.

As alluded by other posters, sometimes you can have an off year but it takes years to build reputation and only a bad year to destroy it.

I am seriously thinking about using Labbaik for next year inshallah but would like to know what these issues are (feel free to PM if that's better) so at least these concerns/issues can be clarified with the organisers. My previous dealings (non-hajj) with the group have been extremely satisfactory and I am thinking may be it is a once off bad experience which will inshallah be rectified.

Hajj is a religious obligation and often requires a bit of struggle & patience - it is not a vacation or holiday but nonetheless every haji is entitled to what they pay for and what they have been promised within reason. There are extremes in people's expectations - some people complain about their buffet breakfast that it is too repetitive and not enough variety - on the other extreme people find they do not have the 5 star accommodation which they were promised and often forced to stay in what you would classify as 0 star.

It comes down to the nature of complaint and the response & efforts of the organisers to rectify this issue. Unfortunately, Hajj has become a very lucrative business - annually more than 10 billion and with rising costs associated with hajj, people's expectation will only grow and they will demand better services with very little room for compromise.

[Belal20111]

salem aleykom

I am very sorry to hear you had a bad experience with ur group. But being in hajj myself this year, i would only tell u that a person should prepare him/herself that the amount of money you are paying is not because the group wanted so, its bc everywhere in the world is paying exactly the same amount. And this wouldnot give u a 5 star service. In hajj you need to be physically and mentally accepting anything and know at the time of the prophet people had suffered a lot. They used to walk in the dessert and have no bussess and no tenant with air con and no 5 star hotel with meals included.

I am not saying u shouldnot complain, but what i am saying is that your group would have done their best, with labbaik i know masha allah their tenant was full of people and it gets harder for organiser to control that huge amount of people. Insha allah, make du3a that u go again and all the bad thing would improve. Approach the brother and go to Allah for guidance...

Before i went with my group, i heard all those horrible experience people had with my group and other groups and i was expecting the worse. But alhumdallah when it came to reality, i was pleased with the service simply bc i heard the worse and not the good.. And some people were in my group havenot heard a single word and they were expecting more and disappointed with some of the service provided. I hope you understand my point insha allah

May Allah accept your hajj and everyone else's insha allah

P.S: wanted to add that alhumdallah we were blessed to have a tenant with air con, food, hotels, buses, there were many people in hajj who were living in the street without air con, no hotels, no food provided and they were taken the food from the group of tenant from AMerica,australia, turkey and also in arafa people were standing on the sun without any cold drink, tea, coffee and meals provided. Also, i met people who had to walk from mina, arafa to mozdalefa so they had no means of transportation..So alhumdallah we were blessed compare to other people alhumdallah. Insha allah keeping this in mind would make u apprecaite the blessing you had eventhough u had issues.

salem aleykom

QUOTE=melb_muslim;474204]salem aleykom....Walekum Salam

I am very sorry to hear you had a bad experience with ur group.

Ihave no regrets, I am only thankful to Allah that He took me there. I am just tryig to be helpful. Its not me but the pain i got to see how women specially the old ones were ignored and not cared for.
But being in hajj myself this year, i would only tell u that a person should prepare him/herself that the amount of money you are paying is not because the group wanted so, its bc everywhere in the world is paying exactly the same amount. And this wouldnot give u a 5 star service.

I and many more are not intersted in 5 star hotels, its about just being caring and delvering on your promises and when you cant haveing the courtesy to appologise.

In hajj you need to be physically and mentally accepting anything and know at the time of the prophet people had suffered a lot. They used to walk in the dessert and have no bussess and no tenant with air con and no 5 star hotel with meals included.

I agree and most of us are because Allah makes it easy for all of us.

I am not saying u shouldnot complain, but what i am saying is that your group would have done their best, with labbaik i know masha allah their tenant was full of people and it gets harder for organiser to control that huge amount of people. Insha allah, make du3a that u go again and all the bad thing would improve. Approach the brother and go to Allah for guidance...

Before i went with my group, i heard all those horrible experience people had with my group and other groups and i was expecting the worse. But alhumdallah when it came to reality, i was pleased with the service simply bc i heard the worse and not the good.. And some people were in my group havenot heard a single word and they were expecting more and disappointed with some of the service provided. I hope you understand my point insha allah

May Allah accept your hajj and everyone else's insha allah

Thanks

P.S: wanted to add that alhumdallah we were blessed to have a tenant with air con, food, hotels, buses, there were many people in hajj who were living in the street without air con, no hotels, no food provided and they were taken the food from the group of tenant from AMerica,australia, turkey and also in arafa people were standing on the sun without any cold drink, tea, coffee and meals provided. Also, i met people who had to walk from mina, arafa to mozdalefa so they had no means of transportation..So alhumdallah we were blessed compare to other people alhumdallah. Insha allah keeping this in mind would make u apprecaite the blessing you had eventhough u had issues.

I do my friend , I am very thankful to Allah, like i say i have no regrets and i also have no grudges against them, i have forgeiven them so thats not an issue

salem aleykom[/QUOTE]

[melb_muslim]

I do my friend , I am very thankful to Allah, like i say i have no regrets and i also have no grudges against them, i have forgeiven them so thats not an issue

Alhumdallah this is the most important thing, you have forgiven them and insha allah u will get a lot of reward for that. For being patience and forgiven and telling ur point to the organiser.

May allah guide u and us to the right path and may he accept our hajj and give us the chance to go there again isha allah and be one of those who will be blessed to be there again insha allah

[Belal20111]

Alhumdallah this is the most important thing, you have forgiven them and insha allah u will get a lot of reward for that. For being patience and forgiven and telling ur point to the organiser.

May allah guide u and us to the right path and may he accept our hajj and give us the chance to go there again isha allah and be one of those who will be blessed to be there again insha allah

Thanks Mariam Sister

I guess i like to end this conversation on a good and positive note. I have said whatever i have to in this matter.

No more from me on this issue, if someone wishes to have any advice on Hajj they can PM me, i will be glad to help.

Its good to see there is still a lot of light at the end of the tunnell.

Allah Hu Akbar.
Kindest Regards
Belal

[UmmZ.]

Brother I know a few sisters who went with Labbaik this year, and some that I met whilst I was there. I did not hear them mention any issues with their group or operators.

Could you please elaborate on the issues you encoutered so this can help others in the future?

[falah]

Brother Musa

Chill down. I accept your advise but as I said even I dont belive in luck.

Brother, even if you dont believe in luck, it is still better to drop the phrase. Maybe your use of the phrase could lead others to believe in luck.