Muslim men and NonMuslim Men

[Girl]

Use manners and kindness, that means show them the beauty of Islaam in your behavior and mannerisms, however never forget that the creator knows his creation better than you and I...

Some kaafireen are sincere human beings but their way of life is what I call by the way of the haywaan, they are not governed by Gods law, but man's law and some are not governed by any law or call to the ways of jahiliyaah or worse.

@Girl,

What they say on their tongues is one thing (and look at their behavior toward Muslims) and what is in their hearts is far worse.

Some kaafirs do not care, they just want to do their own thing, but in places like Bosnia their neighbors were the same, they considered one another brothers and by the manipulation of the authorities and media they turned on their so called Muslim "brethren". Do not forget that history repeats itself over and over when the nature of mankind is concerned.

===

I obviously sound like Mr "hate" but one of the best of deeds is to love and hate for the sake of Allaah, we need to know where the balance lies.

You have no idea what is in my heart or anyone's heart for that matter. You also know nothing about what laws I follow or my way of life.

[Ahmad]

Salamu Alaykum, brothers, i was just wondering what Muslim men think of nonMuslim Western men. We always see them talking about you and how evil and misogynist you are etc. etc., but we never see you talking about them. So i'm curious, what are you views of them? do you admire them, respect them, fear them, want to be like them etc.? thanks for any feedback

It's not something I think about.

[Newbee]

You have no idea what is in my heart or anyone's heart for that matter. You also know nothing about what laws I follow or my way of life.

I do not need to know. Everything I said is a generalisation and not a specific case/issue, so it's not my concern what's in your heart or anyone's heart either. I also do not bother to worry about what laws people follow or their way of life either for that matter.

[Girl]

^ Well when you call people animals beause of the laws they follow than it does seem like you care...

and I don't care if you generalising, my father, male cousins, close male friends and relatives fit into the non - muslim men catagory, so you were specifically calling them animals

[Newbee]

Seems your more emotionally 'moved' by what I said without reading and comprehending what the point was.

I never said 'girl's father, cousins, etc... were animals'. Look if you want to jump to conclusions, do it with someone else's posts and not mine.

[Girl]

Muslim men - Normal men who believe in Allaah and usually care to do the right thing set by Allaah and his messenger (SalAllaahu 'alayhi wa sallam).

Kaafir men - Normal men who need to practice more hygiene (I care not to elaborate). They do not believe in Allaah and/or his messenger (SalAllaahu 'alayhi wa sallam) thus in my eyes are like haywaan.

You just said kafir men are animals because they don't believe in Allah and/or his messanger. That includes every man that I've known and loved.

[Newbee]

And surely, We have created many of the jinns and mankind for Hell. They have hearts wherewith they understand not, they have eyes wherewith they see not, and they have ears wherewith they hear not (the truth). They are like cattle, nay even more astray; those! They are the heedless ones. (Al-A'raf 7:179)


Verily, you will find the strongest among men in enmity to the believers (Muslims) the Jews and those who are Al-Mushrikűn (polytheists, idol worshippers, etc), and you will find the nearest in love to the believers (Muslims) those who say: "we are christians." That is because amongst them are priests and monks, and they are not proud. (Al-Ma'idah 5:82)


And there are among them (Jews) unlettered people, who know not the book, but they trust upon false desires and they but guess. (Al-Baqarah 2:78)


Then woe to those who write the book with their own hands and then say, "This is from Allâh," to purchase with it a little price! Woe to them for what their hands have written and woe to them for that they earn thereby. (Al-Baqarah 2:79)


Those (who embraced Islâm from Banî Israel) to whom We gave the book [the Taurât (Torah)] [or those (Muhammad's Peace be upon him companions) to whom We have given the book (the Qur'ân)] recite it (i.e. obey its orders and follow its teachings) as it should be recited (i.e. followed), they are the ones that believe therein. And whoso disbelieves in it (the Qur'ân), those are they who are the losers. (Tafsir Al-Qurtubî. Vol. 2, Page 95). (Al-Baqarah 2:121)


That is because Allâh has sent down the book (the Qur'ân) in truth. And verily, those who disputed as regards the book are far away in opposition. (Al-Baqarah 2:176)


Take heed and don't put words in my mouth, surely you're misunderstanding and jumping to conclusions (which I already mentioned) but the verses above should be clear.

General statements are not the same as specific statements.

[Girl]

General statements are all - inclusive, e.g, "all kafirs are animal", and specific statements are circumstantial, e.g "kafirs who hate islam are animals"...do you see how one is offensive and makes no sense while the other does make sense?

[Abul Hasan As Sumaali]

I think the brother didn't mean to say they are in of themselves are animals but he meant the way they live is like the ways of the animals.

because what an animal does is that, it eats, drinks, intercourse and have babies that's it. where as the Kuffaar are human beings, Allaah blessed the humans with an intellect, however these kuffaar don't use it to ponder over the creation of Allaah and believe in him and worship him alone without partners.

so their way of life is just like the way of life of an animal.

I think that's what the brother is trying to say.

[juhu10]

look there are the respectful ones but there are the real annoying ones that don't want to accept that you can't shake hands and as much as you tell them they still try to tap you on the shoulder n do silly things like that. makes me sick. It's like if I was to go up to them when they're drinking beer and pull the can out of their hand, how angry would they get?

we don't accept each others beliefs but at least respect the right for someone to practice their own way and if someone makes it clear they don't wanna be touched then bloody heck don't touch em

actually i kinda do shake hands with them because to them it's just a normal thing and i can't be bothered going through the whole awkward 'oh we don't shake hands' explanation. however i don't go near Muslim men because we 'know the rules'. i wonder if that's bad.......

[Abdraheim]

there are alot of "normal" things considered by non-muslims like gambling, drinking, riba, relationships and all that entails. should we let awkwardness getting in the way of avoiding those? i'd hope not.

[juhu10]

there are alot of "normal" things considered by non-muslims like gambling, drinking, riba, relationships and all that entails. should we let awkwardness getting in the way of avoiding those? i'd hope not.

true, but shaking hands is no where near the level of gambling and riba etc. shaking hands means almost nothing to them

[Abdraheim]

so depending on the level of haraamness(major/minor sins) is how we should decide whether or not to see if its serious enough to comply with?

Ma’qil ibn Yassaar said: the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “For one of you to be stabbed in the head with an iron needle is better for him than that he should touch a woman who is not permissible for him.”

Narrated by al-Tabaraani in al-Kabeer, 486. Shaykh al-Albaani said in Saheeh al-Jaami’, 5045, that this hadeeth is saheeh.

[Abdraheim]

true, but shaking hands is no where near the level of gambling and riba etc. shaking hands means almost nothing to them

not sure of the authenticity of this statement but the message here is relevant

ibn Sa'd said, "Don't look at the meagerness of your sin, look at who it was that you disobeyed."



another thing to consider is your point of view when regarding sin or a haram action. do we look at it from the kaafirs point of view or even another person whether they make much of a deal of it or should we consider it from our point of view as muslims?

[SammerTX]

so depending on the level of haraamness(major/minor sins) is how we should decide whether or not to see if its serious enough to comply with?

Ma’qil ibn Yassaar said: the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “For one of you to be stabbed in the head with an iron needle is better for him than that he should touch a woman who is not permissible for him.”

Narrated by al-Tabaraani in al-Kabeer, 486. Shaykh al-Albaani said in Saheeh al-Jaami’, 5045, that this hadeeth is saheeh.

There are scholars who have interpreted that to mean intercourse since the word "mass" is used throughout the Qu'ran and hadith to mean exactly that.

[from water]

There are scholars who have interpreted that to mean intercourse since the word "mass" is used throughout the Qu'ran and hadith to mean exactly that.

What is the consensus though? All four mathahib say it is forbidden, and the Prophet (saw) did not do it. Also so the scholar interpreted it to mean intercourse, does that mean they said it was halal to shake hands with non mahrams? If so, who are these scholars?

[Girl]

I think the brother didn't mean to say they are in of themselves are animals but he meant the way they live is like the ways of the animals.

because what an animal does is that, it eats, drinks, intercourse and have babies that's it. where as the Kuffaar are human beings, Allaah blessed the humans with an intellect, however these kuffaar don't use it to ponder over the creation of Allaah and believe in him and worship him alone without partners.

so their way of life is just like the way of life of an animal.

I think that's what the brother is trying to say.

How is likening someone's way of life to that of an animal any better than calling them an animal? Like I said before it implies that people I love live like animals. You do realise non - muslims are made up of peo culple from different cultures, religions and values right?

[Tay_]

How is likening someone's way of life to that of an animal any better than calling them an animal? Like I said before it implies that people I love live like animals. You do realise non - muslims are made up of peo culple from different cultures, religions and values right?

Agreed. It is also unfair to animals themselves to be used as a form of degradation. They are a creation of Allah swt, and they act in complete obedience to Him at all times, as they do not have the ability to make choices the same way that humans have.

[Musa]

[falah]

true, but shaking hands is no where near the level of gambling and riba etc. shaking hands means almost nothing to them

I have been to church meetings where the men kiss the other men's wives as a form of greeting. To them it is normal. So what? Does that mean we shyould do it too?