Islam Marriage and marriage in another country.

[Lizzy]

assalamu Aliakum,
I have a question and hoping someone may have the answer. I am a muslim sister ( revert ) for many years now. I have had a marriage proposal from a muslim man whom lives in Lebanon and I live in Australia and I am Australian born. Recently, we have been organising the marriage contract that will take place in Lebanon and not in Australia as it is easier for me to travel than for him to come here due the longivity of getting a visa. The husband to be contacted the sheikh in his community and the sheikh advised him that I need to go to my local court and get my brother who is non muslim to write a letter giving his acceptance to marry this man. Also, the sheikh told him that I need blood tests which I am aware of and I also need to have an interview with lebanese police to determine my authentity to marriage and intentions and security check done on myself. Another thing I need to do is wait for 15 days before marriage can take place once I arrive in the country of Lebanon before the sheikh will marry us.
Now, I am a little confused, shocked to say the least and not feeling at all comfortable with this. I do wear Hijab and a pious muslim woman. I recently did an Islam marriage course from the Hikmahway institute and Shayke Aslam Abuismaeel did the course. I did not see or hear of all the things above being done for marriage in Islam. I am not under age, I am a woman in my early 30's and my father has a brain injury and is not of sound mind to give me permission. I thought that all I would need is Wali who is a leader of muslims in the city in lebanon where I am getting married. Inshallah I hope I do not need to go through all the above and hope someone can help me with this please.

salaams,
Lizzy

[Explorer]

Sis your situation is tricky, and first thing I want to say is that I have been in your situation. A bit different but basically I was born here too and ended up getting married in lebanon.

The sheikh married us 4 days after I landed in lebanon, and I did have blood tests but no security checks.

About the wali I don't know my dad and cousin were with me at the time so maybe ask your local mosque they can give you an answer specific to your situation.

Sorry I just got to throw this out there too: Sis, I think maybe you should take at least a few weeks before you get married because guys from lebanon are very very very different to us and unfortunately A LOT not all but a majority have all these cultural beliefs and superstitions that they think is part of Islam and it can lead to arguments so maybe best to visit him for a couple of weeks first.

InshaAllah it works out well for you.

[fatima_43]

I thought the Wali had to be a Muslim?

[Lizzy]

salaams,
Yes, my understanding is that a wali needs to be muslim too. Also I have known this man for a long time and I have met him in person. We have had our fair share of cultural misunderstandings and boy oh boy it tested the waters for us. I know there will be bridges to cross with this but have come to an understanding of respect with each other and work through any speed bumps. Inshallah I wish everything works out too because I am freaking out about being interviewed by police just to get married. I spoke to an Imam and he thinks maybe this sheikh in lebanon is confused and perhaps thinks I might be wanting a visa to live in Lebanon.

[Curiously_Undercover]

Sis you dont need to do any of that, Islamically, your marriage can be over the phone (provided you have a muslim wali and 2 male muslim witnesses also on the line)! Then if you like, just go there for a normal visit. You dont need to be married to him 'legally' or anything - unless you want to bring him to Aus.

Kheyr inshaa'Allah, i hope everything goes well for you!

[fatima_43]

did you do Istikhara Lizzy?

[Lizzy]

Thank you sis, Ok, well yes I would like him to come live here in Auss, so I would need to look at the legal option of marriage if this is needed in order for him to get a visa? Ahhhhh the plot thickens on this subject haha! EEEk.

[Explorer]

Sis you definitely don't have to be interviewed by police.

The immigration office is what you should be scared of.

[Curiously_Undercover]

Sis i can give you a phone number of an immigration office here in Sydney. My uncle works at an immigration office in Lebanon which is the branch of the Sydney one, and they can advise you on what is needed for you to proceed with this.

[Lizzy]

sis Fatima yes I have done Istikhara. Yikes the immigration people. I would like the information sister curiousity_undercover about what is needed to proceed with the legality sides of things. I understand this will be a long process so I will be working over time to go back and forth to lebanon in the mean time to see my new husband, inshallah it won't be a painful process and the immigration department are not scarey. :-D

[Explorer]

No it doesn't have to be a legally registered marriage because spousal visas are for married couples or de-facto (even same sex)

[CVM]

no matter by what means be it a legal marriage or de-facto relationship visa, they will both require a lot of paper work, background checks (for him mainly) and 'proof' as in pictures with eachother etc that you are in a relationship.

Might sound very racist. But there is no nice way to say this, lebo boys can be angels and knights in shining armor and everything you want them to be until you get them here and then they either want their way or the highway or they end up becoming entrenched in the western lifestyle, that said, if he is a true practicing muslim shouldn't be an issue, now THAT said, I personally have only met a handful, and I have been lebanon, am lebanese and am married to a lebo so I am not some racist hick I am just making you aware of a growing problem with marrying from overseas... they can be users and they tend to say anything to get married including lying about being OK with many things, now THAT said, kheyr inshallah nobody knows him better then you and nobody knows your situation better than you and if you prayed istikhara and are happy and want to go ahead with it, alf mabrouk, good luck, and get your writing hand ready for all the forms coming your way lol

[Lizzy]

Thanks sis CVM for your honesty. I had a feeling there would be lots of paper work involved and evidence needed. Your email made me squirm a little and inshallah I have found a good man and not the Lebo's your referring too. I also have met good and bad and they are in every race. Initially he wanted me to live in Lebanon with him and him not have to come here because his father is a very sick man and he wanted to stay there to take care of the family but I just cannot see myself living in Lebanon. I like visiting but I don't see myself living there because of the luxery I have living here compared to Lebanon. Thanks for your wishes and make dua for me. I am going to need it by the sounds of things with the visa side of things let alone my new life and I still trying to deal with this issue with the sheikh and police interview lol.

[falah]

The Prophet said: “No woman should travel except with a mahram, and no man should enter upon a woman unless her mahram is with her.” A man said, O Messenger of Allah, I want to go out with such-and-such an army and my wife wants to go to Hajj. He said, “Go (to Hajj) with her.” Bukhari (1862).

Narrated from Abu Hurayrah that the Prophet said: “It is not permissible for a woman who believes in Allah and the Last Day to travel the distance of one day, except with a mahram.”
Muslim (1339).

There is pretty much consensus on this issue from the scholars. However, there are some exceptions to this rule given by scholars. One of the exceptions given by Imam Nawawi is for the woman in the land of non-Muslims migrating to the land of Muslims, and this was done by Muslim women in the time of the prophet .

Not sure that would apply to you as you are not migrating, and Lebanon is not really a Muslim country.

It seems to me to be much better to have the groom come to Australia if possible, then your normal sheikh can act as your wali.

It is not a good idea for women to travel overseas without a guardian.

If it is impossible for him to come here then you could at least marry over the phone before you go, and then get paperwork after.

[SammerTX]

This is off topic and not to mention, inaccurate.

She didn't ask about whether she can travel alone or not, she's questioning a few things she doesn't feel were part of a valid marriage contract.

[Umm Binyameen]

This is off topic and not to mention, inaccurate.

She didn't ask about whether she can travel alone or not, she's questioning a few things she doesn't feel were part of a valid marriage contract.

It's encumbant upon us though to enjoin the good and forbid the evil. What if she will be punished for this and on the Day of Judgement she asks 'why didn't you people on Aussie Muslims tell me about this? You had the knowledge and I didn't and you withheld it from me.'

So I believe we should where ever possible advise people in the kindest way. And then what they do with it is up to them, but at least we've done our part.

[SammerTX]

Traveling alone is not evil for us to forbid.

In fact, there is a very legitimate difference of opinion.

One that was quoted (the literal one) and one that's more contextualised.

To promote only one and advance it as if the person is a sinner isn't fair on the questioner or the texts.

[Lizzy]

salaams,
I thank all brothers and sisters for their input and advise. I am not travelling alone, I will be taking someone with me. Also I will not be alone with him until after the marriage contract. My question was simply confusing to me on the context of ruling on valid Islamic marriage. It seems since I posted this I have been told the sheikh refuses to marry until I have an interview with the police and all my documents are sighted and copied, I.e: passport, birth certificate etc and they will ask me questions as to how I met the groom, how long, why do I want to marry him, what are my intentions and whatever else is thrown at me. This is what has been advised to me by the groom last night. I don't speak arabic fluently and I believe in lebanon they speak the language different to the formal arabic I know (which is very little ). To be honest, I am nervous about this interview and security check that is being placed upon me just to get married. The groom said that the sheikh advised this is the law of the land and he will not marry until this is done and completed which will take approxiamately 15 days or more. I would have left the country by this time anyways because I work here and don't have leave available so I doubt the marriage will take place during this time and I have to save again to go back to get married. I am disappointed,but it is out of my hands and the sheikh will not bend the rules. And it seems not only is this speed hump just to get married but there is also the long visa process that follows. I wanted to marry and begin the visa application but it is now going to have to wait due to this marriage issue. :-(

[falah]

^the stuff you are talking about is Lebanese law, not islamic law.

If you can find a sheikh who will marry without the paperwork it would be good because you could then be with your husband under Islamic law. Perhaps then you can worry about getting the official paperwork done later. Your intended husband should know if there are any sheikhs around who could do the Islamic marriage.

[Lizzy]

Thank you Falah, to be honest, I have asked him and I don't think he knows or if he is interested in trying to find a sheikh that can marry under Islamic law. I asked him if his was a possibility and follow up on the paper work later. My hands are tied, unfortunately I am here and he is there and if I could, i would try find a sheikh in Lebanon but I don't speak arabic and simply do not know where to start.

Liz