Monopoly question.

[Abu Coburg]

1. What would you say to a person who denies that Islam exclusively is the truth and the only religion acceptable to Allah?

One of the things our Abrahamic Traditions suffer from is exclusivism. Many of the people who adhere to Abrahamic teachings whether they be Jews, Christians or Muslims, tend to see themselves as having some monopoly on the truth, and monopoly on the truth as far as any real Abrahamic traditions would say would be God’s alone.

If we accept or assume the possibly that He did speak, the divine spoke through these revelations of the Old Testamant, the Older Testament, the New Testament then the Quran, which each one has their claim. If we do accept that certainly God has many voices, and to claim any one voice to be the exclusive voice of God is a very dangerous thing to do.

I’ve been in my share of exclusivist tradition, when I first became Muslim that was the type of Islam I was introduced to… when you begin to look at the nuances of our traditions you find is that they are deeply compatible at those most basic fundamental levels as they are teaching universal truths, and they would not resonate in the millions of hearts if that were not true.

2. The speaker attributes "pride" and "human arrogance" to those who state that the only religion that is the truth and acceptable to Allah is Islam. What would you say about such a person?

Note that this is not a child. He is an adult.

He is also not a new Muslim, but rather someone who has spent a lot of time with Muslims and Muslim scholars and knows Arabic and knows enough to know that Allah says in the Quran that Islam is the only religion acceptable to Him.

[cheesegirl]

Took me a while to understand what monopoly had to do with this lol.

I guess I would ask how two totally conflicting ideas can be true?

I mean it is so obvious the reason they share basics truth is that they all came from the same God - the difference being some are more corrupted than others.

[Abu Coburg]

I guess I would ask how two totally conflicting ideas can be true?

Ok. What you're doing here is tajreeh and istidlal (refuting his claim, and offering your own evidence). We can do that later.

My question is: What would you call a person who says that Islam is not the exclusive truth and that Islam is not the only religion acceptable to Allah? Is such a claim kufr or not and is the utterer a kafir or not for denying the explicit text of the Quran that says that Islam alone is the truth and also says that Islam alone is acceptable to Allah?

Again, this is not a child or a new Muslim. But a person who has read enough Islamic literature, knows Arabic, and spent enough time with Muslims & Muslim scholars to know better than saying this.

I mean it is so obvious the reason they share basics truth is that they all came from the same God - the difference being some are more corrupted than others.

What basic truths do they share?

Laws like "don't lie", "don't kill" etc. and some basic historical facts like acknowledging the physical and historic presence of Abraham, Jesus, Moses, peace be on them?

Or the core, defining beliefs regarding Allah, and faith itself?

If it is just some of the laws, of course you are right.

And of course you are not referring to beliefs regarding Allah, because you said:

I guess I would ask how two totally conflicting ideas can be true?

and you are right.

How can two opposing things be the truth? Judaism rejects the prophethoods of Jesus and Prophet Muhammad, peace be on them. Islam accepts it and says that partial acceptance of only some prophets makes one a disbeliever in Allah.

Christians believe in trinity. Islam rejects it and calls it a lie.

Religions are defined by beliefs, not laws.

Anyways, can you or someone else please answer my question: A person who states that another religion along with Islam is also the truth, is he a Muslim or a kafir?

[Musa]

http://www.halaltube.com/yasir-qadhi...ic-exclusivity

[Musa]

[Abu Coburg]

Just answer the question boss.

[Musa]

I put a link there with a video that answers the question

http://www.halaltube.com/yasir-qadhi...ic-exclusivity

[Abu Coburg]

I'm sorry I don't have the time to watch a full hour's video. It seems you adhere to the same opinion as that given in the video. Can you just say what that is in written word here.

[wayseer]

1. What would you say to a person who denies that Islam exclusively is the truth and the only religion acceptable to Allah?

A loaded question which begs the answer.

Clearly the Qur'an recognizes the validity of other monotheist religions.

2. The speaker attributes "pride" and "human arrogance" to those who state that the only religion that is the truth and acceptable to Allah is Islam. What would you say about such a person?

Depends very much of his argument. But given the restriction of the quotes - I would tend to agree.

He is also not a new Muslim, but rather someone who has spent a lot of time with Muslims and Muslim scholars and knows Arabic and knows enough to know that Allah says in the Quran that Islam is the only religion acceptable to Him.

Then you might give us the courtesy of linking with his website or the particular article your reference.

[Abu Coburg]

A loaded question which begs the answer.

Clearly the Qur'an recognizes the validity of other monotheist religions.

Is that so?

Can you point to verses of the Quran that "accept" other religions and call them as truthful and acceptable to Allah?

[wayseer]

You need to read my post - I said that the Qur'an recognizes the validity of the monotheistic religions - or the 'people of the Book/s'

2:87, 2:121, 2:141, 3:55, 4:54, 4:136, 4:153, 5:5, 5;48, 5:75, 6:91, 6:105, 6:154, 6:156, 7:6, 11:17, 11:110, 12,111, 17:71, 20:127, 21:94, 21:104, 21:105, 26:2, 29:27, 29: 47, 39:69, 42:15, 46:30, 74;31, 109:1, that should keep you occupied for a bit.

But I note that you elected not to provide any reference for your cut n' paste job. The only conclusion I can reach is that you have selectively made reference to something which happens to serve your purpose.

You need to read the Qur'an - and not what other people tell you is written in the Qur'an.

[Abu Coburg]

No Muslim on earth denies the previous prophets and previous books and their rightful followers who accepted them as Allah's prophets as being Muslims. What you are doing is setting up red herrings.

It is you in fact who needs to read the Quran. Can you even read the Quran in Arabic or are you handicapped in Arabic and can only rely on translations? My guess is you are illiterate in Arabic.

They were not "other monotheistic religions". What Abraham Moses and Jesus brought was none other than Islam.

The Quran says Abraham was Muslim. The Quran says Jesus' followers who accepted him as Allah's prophet were Muslims.

See 3:67, 2:135, 2:130, 3:65, 5:111

I see you have even offered your jahil thoughts on this thread too. I missed it:

http://www.aussiemuslims.com/forums/...enter-paradise

It is obvious that you believe contrary to the Quran that states that now, after Prophet Muhammad's arrival, anyone who does not accept in Islam believing in ALL prophets of Allah, he is a kafir.

Have a good read of 4:150 and 48:13.

[aussiemu]

Abu Coburg: Wayseer is not a Muslim as far as I know. It may be worth explaining how he is wrong in light of the Qur'an rather just talking about his jahil thoughts (don't think he knows what jahil means) and his lack of knowledge of Arabic.

[CVM]

Lest we forget...

[Abu Coburg]

Wayseer is not a Muslim as far as I know.

Ok. Then he should not talk as if he is an authority on Islam or knows it well, and have the audacity to tell Muslims that they don't know their own religious fundamentals well!

It may be worth explaining how he is wrong in light of the Qur'an rather just talking about his jahil thoughts

Just did here too, and also on the other thread: http://www.aussiemuslims.com/forums/...l=1#post572222

Wayseer, jahil means ignorant.

Read this post patiently again and see our Muslim beliefs: http://www.aussiemuslims.com/forums/...l=1#post571327

Islam is defined by accepting Allah as The One & Only God AND by accepting ALL of His prophets and ALL of His angels and ALL of His books (in their true form), in life after death, the day of resurrection and in good and bad fate being from Allah.

Missing out on ANY ONE of these or partially believing in some prophets and not others or some books and not others means a person is a DISBELIEVER in Allah Himself.

Obviously those who accepted Moses as Allah's prophet were Muslims. But as soon as Jesus arrived, if they rejected accepting Jesus as Allah's prophet, they became disbelievers.

Those who accepted Jesus and Moses and all previous prophets as Allah's prophets (without believing in trinity), of course they were Muslims.

But as soon as Prophet Muhammad arrived, it is necessary to accept him too as Allah's prophet alongside accepting all past prophets. Not accepting him as the last prophet of Allah makes one a disbeliever.

Acceptance of Prophet Muhammad is acceptance of all past prophets and acceptance of the Quran is acceptance of all past books (in true form).

This is as taught by the Quran itself. Hope that makes it clear.

If christians and jews (or anyone who is not a Muslim) were not disbelievers, we would not have any need to do da'wah to them or invite them to Islam! We do da'wah to them and call them to Islam because they are disbelievers.

[Curiously_Undercover]

Ok. Then he should not talk as if he is an authority on Islam or knows it well, and have the audacity to tell Muslims that they don't know their own religious fundamentals well!

way to give dawah akhi

[CVM]

Narrated Hasan: Knowledge is of two types. Firstly, knowledge perceived by the heart, and that is useful knowledge; secondly, the knowledge at on the tip of one’s tongue, and that is an argument from Allah, the Exalted and Glorious, against the children of Adam.
Transmitted by Darimi. (Tirmidhi Hadith 270)

[Abu Coburg]

way to give dawah akhi ^^

I make no apologies. If Wayseer is not a Muslim, he should not talk condescendingly to Muslims as if he knows Islam better than the world's Muslim scholars! He should ask questions instead of playing smart.

I deal with people as individuals without putting them in categories.

@CVM, I never implied Arabs or nonArabs are superior. But that doesn't mean one can deny that the knowledge of Islam is locked in original Arabic texts of Quran and hadith, and without that no one can ever be considered as even remotely knowledgeable of Islam!

[Curiously_Undercover]

I make no apologies. If Wayseer is not a Muslim, he should not talk condescendingly to Muslims as if he knows Islam better than the world's Muslim scholars! He should ask questions instead of playing smart.

I deal with people as individuals without putting them in categories.

@CVM, I never implied Arabs or nonArabs are superior. But that doesn't mean one can deny that the knowledge of Islam is locked in original Arabic texts of Quran and hadith, and without that no one can ever be considered as even remotely knowledgeable of Islam!

Have you heard of orientalists? Many of them had soooooooo much knowledge about Islam, they would write encyclopedias in Arabic!! None of which were Muslim... They had more knowledge about Islam in SO much detail, then any layman Muslim would have.

Perhaps Wayseer has more knowledge of Islam than any of us on this forum. Perhaps he's on the verge of reverting, and your lack of manners and harshness in words has just turned him off.

I dont have the knowledge to discuss about what your discussing on the post, so he may be wrong in this aspect (likewise you may be wrong), but manners in Islam are crucial before you start sharing any sort of Islamic knowledge.

[cheesegirl]

Wait a minute, is wayseer meant to be two words? Way seer? All this time I thought it was some kind of Arabic name...