GOODBYE MESSAGE FROM AUSSIE MUSLIMS

 
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    I can see Abu Layla!
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    Needs more popcorn!
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    Senior Member SammerTX's Avatar
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    The big thing for me though is Christ. I can't accept that Christ was not the son of God. I have researched it, both from an Islamic and a Christian element. It's not that I'm not willing to go away from what I was raised with - I am a convert to Catholicism and it was a big disappointment to my family. I simply haven't come across anything in Islam that convinces me that Christ was not the son of God. Perhaps if I'm ever convicted otherwise I'll convert, but until then nothing else really counts.
    Are you going by scriptural evidence, common sense or passion?
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    monotheist falah's Avatar
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    Is Jesus (PBUH) the Begotten Son of God?

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfuJ2dmkHnw
    Singapore: oppresses Muslims, bans athaan, bans hijab in schools, prevents building of madrassahs or muslim schools, puts limit on the percentage of Muslims allowed in each apartment building, and bans Muslims from joining Singapore's elite military forces. Singapore; Israel's best buddy!
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    Melb (13-Apr-2012)

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    Jane you first start with the church being around around for so long....???? Which I say and can prove that it is only around due to corruption, the CATHOLIC church is so corrupt like pornography...Somehow you can overlook this?

    I say and you know very well that the Catholic church is full of priests who prey on small innocent children & the catholic faith of dealing with it is moving them around just to molester even more children... Somehow you can overlook this?

    The trinity is complex & it's not your doctrine your writing skills will give justice... Religion should have an answer to everything & nothing should be complex, unless it is a lie.... Somehow you can overlook this?

    Abraham sacrificing his son is a world away from god sacrificing his son, or himself, or the wholly ghost, because Abraham showed how much faith he had in god by willing to do this act under gods instruction... Please don't try & make things more complicated... Nothing is complicated, just go on the Internet & watch the hundreds of debates between Muslims & Catholics, Muslims & Christians & time and time again the Catholics & Christians look like uneducated & unrealistic fools... Somehow you can overlook this?

    The Vatican has 57 members who have history of molestation, the pope has been involved in overlooking a priest who did molester children & moved him elsewhere to molester more, his own brother also has molestered children.... Somehow you can overlook this?

    Jayne, Islam is the truth, Islam is pure, Islam is practical, Islam has the answer for every question you may have, Islam is against all the evil things like pornography, child molestation & does not condone it by practicing it behind closed doors.
    If you truly do believe in god, if you truly want paradise in the hereafter YOU OWE IT TO YOURSELF to ask god for guidance Jayne...
    I challenge you for the next 28 days to pray to god everyday & after you pray ask god for guidance, to be shown the true path that god will accept, that god will then allow you to enter paradise.. you have absolutely nothing to loose at all...
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    This thread needs some input from brother Musa. You used to be catholic I believe Musa?
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    Jayne, how do u respond to this

    CONFIDENTIAL police reports have detailed the suicides of at least 40 people sexually abused by Catholic clergy in Victoria, and have urged a new inquiry into these and many other deaths suspected to be linked to abuse in the church.

    In a damning assessment of the church’s handling of abuse issues, the reports say it appears the church has known about a shockingly high rate of suicides and premature deaths but has "chosen to remain silent."

    Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/ch...#ixzz1rrldqOFX


    U reckon the church is still from God???
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    Apology from the catholic church for stolen baby scandal:


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E2l0W...e_gdata_player
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    Over 2,000 years of child abuse within the catholic church:


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NfXaQ...e_gdata_player
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    Crazy Cat Lady Jayne's Avatar
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    Melb.:

    You say that the only reason the Church has survived is because it is corrupt. I say that is proof that it has Gods protection. How many organisations can you name that have survived 2000 years +? If the Church is, and always has been as corrupt as you claim, then it would have disappeared long ago. There are people within the Church who are corrupt, and at time some of them have been high ranking, but the Church herself is not.

    You seem to think I should base what I believe on what other people do, rather than what the faith teaches. I think that is one of the most ridiculious assertions I've heard. There are over a billion Catholics in the world and not one of them is perfect. I have, and will continue to, base my faith on what the Church teaches. If there are Catholics who aren't living the faith as they should, then that is a separate matter to be dealt with.

    There are Muslims who believe in killing innocent civilians. Should I expect you to walk away from Islam because that is despicable? There are Middle Eastern countries who have been under the rule of Muslim dictators - why don't you walk away from Islam because of how they behave?

    As for the sacrifice - stop avoiding Melb. First you say - "no father would do this", and I give you a present day example, but that doesn't count. Then we look at a man of faith both our religions accept, and he doesn't count. And I further explain it isn't about the Father sacrificing the Son, but the Son sacrificing himself, and there are more cases of man sacrificing himself for others in history than can be numbered, yet you avoid addressing that too. Why don't you be truthful and achknowledge that parents do sacrifice their kids and that even if they didn't, that isn't what the Cross is about anyway? A little intellectual honesty would be nice rather than just avoiding my answer when it doesn't suit you.

    Do you really think I haven't asked God for guidance? Do you think I made a decision to convert to a religion against my families wishes on a whim? Perhaps I was rebelling? If God leads me to Islam, so be it, but the likelihood of that is less every day. That Islam doesn't accept pornograhy or pedeophilia means little to me. Nor does the Church (someday you'll understand the Church and her members aren't the same thing). Nor does she accept divorce/remarrige, which Muslims can do to their hearts content. We don't accept conraception or sex outside of marriage or polygamy. We refuse to achknowledge same sex marriage, and consider homosexual activity sinful. The Church is the largest non-government charity in the world.... we can both list good things our religions have done. Just as we can both list things that people have done in the name of our religions that we aren't so proud of.

    The one thing Islam can't top is that we have the true presence of God in our Churches. Body, blood, soul and divinity.
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    For the others who have replied, I stated earlier I would only converse with Melb. For the very reason that has occurred since I last posted - half a dozen people are expecting replies and I don't have the time for that.

    If you want to debate Islam vs Catholicism, then I'd suggest either:

    http://forums.catholic-convert.com/index.php

    The former been better than the latter.
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    Because the it has lasted 2,000 years that's proof god has protection, so god is allowing pornography, pedophilia in the largest form, theft of children through drugging innocent mothers in catholic hospitals.. Come on Jayne you really can't believe that, if god was protecting the church it wouldn't be so corrupt. Its the same as saying god is protecting the hells angels, the banditos and all the rest of the gangs...
    Basing your faith on what the church teaches? If my sheikh taught me about Islam, spoke the best of words & taught us everything we needed to know, then went out and molestered children do you really think we would allow him to guide us? But, we don't have a structure like yours, we don't have a head of state if you want to call that who can cap all the corruption & sweep under the table all these evil acts, but if we did have a system like that then NO I would never go to another mosque in my life... But that's not Islam, that's what you can call protection via god, fear of god, and obedience to god, we don't just say we fear god, we act upon it...
    Muslim dictators like ghadafi, Saddam? Jayne they are merely Muslim by name, not by faith!
    The sacrifice I still hold the same belief, no one would sacrifice their son, if god came to me & said sacrifice your son & it's the best for you both, yes I would. So that answers your question about Ibrahim. Now, can you explain this trinity you believe in in your own words for me? Or will you avoid it again?
    Im sorry to say Jayne, but if you really asked for guidance then how did you end up in the most corrupt religion on this earth? Corruption of the most evil types does not come from gods protection, but in reality would come from the devil, so no I don't beleive you did.
    Islam will never top the church for blood & once again gods presence in a church that is molestering children, lying, cheating, stealing... I say thank god we will not only never top this, we will never come close! Allahu akbar!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayne View Post
    For the others who have replied, I stated earlier I would only converse with Melb. For the very reason that has occurred since I last posted - half a dozen people are expecting replies and I don't have the time for that.

    If you want to debate Islam vs Catholicism, then I'd suggest either:

    http://forums.catholic-convert.com/index.php

    The former been better than the latter.
    You dont have time for the rest of us!!!! awww you just broke my heart (U)
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    Senior Member SammerTX's Avatar
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    Not interested in debating Islam vs Catholicsim Jayne.

    I'm just baffled by the statement you cannot forgo the idea Jesus is God's son when that is the very first thing Christians usually reject.

    So I'm curious as to what exactly are you basing your belief on.
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    Melb (16-Apr-2012)

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    Crazy Cat Lady Jayne's Avatar
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    Melb: If all you can talk about is pornography and abuse, then this conversation isn't worth having. You are arguing against a strawman. The Catholic Church does not support either, regardless of what it's members have done in its name. Just as there are Muslims in name only, there are Catholics in name only. Interesting this is only acceptable to you in regards to Islam.

    If you can't understand this, then there is no point discussing anything else.

    Edit: Before you claim I am simply "avoiding the topic", lets put it in words you'll understand. If I asked "how can you follow a religion which considers terrorism a good thing?", "how can you ignore the fact that your 'Prophet' was both sex obsessed and a pedeophile?, surely God wouldn't use such a man?", "how can you believe in a religion that mistreats women?"

    If I did that, on every post, you would consider me a troll. And rightly so. That is what you're doing Melb. You're trolling and I've had enough. I was happy to answer questions, but it has gone beyond that. If you won't listen to the answer then there is no point answering.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omar Abdur Rahman View Post
    I'm baffled too, and would also like to know what Jayne is basing her belief on, but it seems that she doesn't have time to respond to you, shaquille20 or me.
    If I replied to anyone who responded to this thread I'd be having at least 6 conversations going. I don't have the time for that.
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    falah (18-Apr-2012)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayne View Post
    Melb: If all you can talk about is pornography and abuse, then this conversation isn't worth having. You are arguing against a strawman. The Catholic Church does not support either, regardless of what it's members have done in its name. Just as there are Muslims in name only, there are Catholics in name only. Interesting this is only acceptable to you in regards to Islam.

    If you can't understand this, then there is no point discussing anything else.

    Edit: Before you claim I am simply "avoiding the topic", lets put it in words you'll understand. If I asked "how can you follow a religion which considers terrorism a good thing?", "how can you ignore the fact that your 'Prophet' was both sex obsessed and a pedeophile?, surely God wouldn't use such a man?", "how can you believe in a religion that mistreats women?"

    If I did that, on every post, you would consider me a troll. And rightly so. That is what you're doing Melb. You're trolling and I've had enough. I was happy to answer questions, but it has gone beyond that. If you won't listen to the answer then there is no point answering.
    Jayne understand a couple of things:
    Our profit (saws) was not a pedophile & had the best of character, he was the best man to ever walk on the face of this earth, not only do we believe this but also does non Muslims, just look at top 100 people of all time. Number 1 is our profit Mohamad (saws).
    Where does it condone terrorism within our scriptures?

    You are missing a very big point Jayne, it's not some Catholics who run these extortion rings, pornography rings and child molestering rings, it's the church itself! The pope and everyone in the Vatican, everyone who represents & runs the catholic church.
    Please name something similar within Islam, yes you will find some Muslims, but you wont find anything remotely as corrupt as the whole catholic system.
    Women are mistreated Jayne?
    Women are held so highly in Islam, as an example there is a hadeeth that says our profit (saws) replied to a man who was asking who the most important person on earth should be to him, he replied your mother, your mother, your mother, then your father... Or if your referring to hijab, the women can testify for this from there point, but from a mans point of view a woman who covers her beauty does not get treated JUST for her beauty but for her brain, her mind & her character.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omar Abdur Rahman View Post
    Ok, so seeing as you're not going to respond to any more talk about sexual perversion within the church, then why no tell us about why you think Jesus (pbuh) is the son of God, if you can spare the time.
    I think this is a great question. Can you please answer this Jayne?
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    Omar Abdur Rahman (18-Apr-2012)

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    Crazy Cat Lady Jayne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Melb View Post
    Where does it condone terrorism within our scriptures?
    Hang on, that's not good enough for me. If I can't say "pornography isn't allowed by our scriptures/Tradition" but rather you insist I go by what some men do, then you can't claim "It isn't allowed by our scriptures" either.

    Some Muslims commit terrorist acts, therfore Islam allows it. By the logic you have continually applied to my faith throughout this thread, you should have no problem accepting this statement.

    Edit: And no, I won't answer anymore questions by you Melb. "The Pope runs a pornography ring" is just trolling, and I see no reason to answer a troll.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omar Abdur Rahman View Post
    Hi Jayne. I invite you to watch the video at the following link. It's about Jesus (pbuh) from the Islamic perspective:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NCZ4HauROx0
    I watched half - too much misinformation. He says the reason that Jesus is called the Son of God is because they could see he did not have a father, except this is not true. Mary was married to St Joseph and those near to the family would have assumed that St Joseph was his father. He is attacking a belief that Christians don't even hold.

    And the idea that Mary wished to be dead rather than bear the child... Melb. would kill his own child if God instructed, but I'm supposed to believe that Mary had issue with bearing a child and would have rather died?

    What were you hoping I would take out of that video? It certainly isn't convincing me of anything.
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